A&P Quick "legal" help regarding photos and a logo

Discussion in 'Lifestyle' started by Stock, Jan 8, 2010.

  1. Stock

    Stock New Member

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    So this local speedshop has chosen to use 3 of my images on thier new website (www.MCSMotorports.com) and I am totally cool with that but I just don't like how it's done, nor have I given them permission to do so yet.

    The two pics with at the bottom of the page are mine. I shot them at a BBQ they held. My only complaint with them is that they've fucked up the aspect ratio and made them look like shit.

    The other is a shot I nabbed of a car they're sponsoring while at the Super Lab Battle in California that's located on their blog page:

    http://www.mcsmotorsports.com/index...ttack-finale-mcscroiset-racing-1st-place.html

    I PM'd one of the owners regarding the issues I'm having:

    To which I recieved:

    I feel I should now touch on the logo subject for you guys to better understad. The "MCS Motorsports" logo with the pistons and brass knuckles was desing by our very own HOG. They had a gentleman's agreement, a handshake deal pretty much to trade stickers for automotive work. They hired an outside person to make the website I linked to above and he took it upon himself to use HOG's MCS logo for the site without asking or anything. HOG and myself are under the impressing that since he designed the logo and was just using stickers and banners and part of their back scratching deal and they never purchased the logo that he retains full rights to it and what they're doing is essentially theivery.

    Are we incorrect here?

    Back to my photo situation, I basically have the same question. Since I took those photos, they are mine correct? If he wants to give me an "LOL. Whatever." attitude he can fucking blow me and he'll have to pull my pics from his site if I request, right?

    BAsically, do I own my photos simply because I took them and does HOG own his logo because he diesigned it? Legally?
     
  2. houseofgrafix

    houseofgrafix PM ME I DONT GIVE A FUCK OT Supporter

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    HOG = me! yaaaaaaaaaa

    but i would love to hear input from you guys as well!
     
  3. wizeguy4

    wizeguy4 New Member

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    as far as I understand, you own your photo the minute you click the shutter until you give up that copyright to someone else
     
  4. Wheezer

    Wheezer OT Supporter

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    Best thing I can say is take this as a lesson learned. I know most people on this site hate watermarks, but it's something I put on all my pictures because I learned the hard way. I've had customers use the shitty resolution "proofs" I gave them to make even shittier prints from Walmart. Then they spread my name around as the photographer. Makes me look like an ass.

    Unless you feel the need to for headaches and legal fee, let this one go and learn from it. Don't give any pics to anyone without a contract.

    As for the logo, I would have different advice since he's using it for profit. But, it all depends on how the deal was made, you might be SOL on this one too.
     
  5. xenon supra

    xenon supra OT Supporter

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    with that attitude i'd tell him to fuck off and remove your images from the site.
    thats bullshit.
     
  6. Ty Webb

    Ty Webb You don't have to go to college. This isn't Russia

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    Like Weezer - this is why I watermark EVERYTHING that goes on the net.
     
  7. Wobistdu

    Wobistdu Guest

    you both own the rights. time to take them back
     
  8. Wobistdu

    Wobistdu Guest


    yeah my reply would be like LOL bro since you think it's funny, you will now remove them or face legal issues LOL
     
  9. HighTachPres

    HighTachPres New Member

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    i like this
     
  10. Stock

    Stock New Member

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    Can Any of you who are better versed in theses scenarios possibly link me/us to some literature regarding how this material is ours due to the fact that we are the creators? I don't think he'll put up too much of a fight if we can at least sound like we're educated with copyright laws.

    :hs:
     
  11. Wheezer

    Wheezer OT Supporter

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  12. Wheezer

    Wheezer OT Supporter

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    From the US copyright office website:

    "In the case of photographs, it is sometimes difficult to determine who owns the copyright and there may be little or no information about the owner on individual copies. Ownership of a “copy” of a photograph – the tangible embodiment of the “work” – is distinct from the “work” itself – the intangible intellectual property. The owner of the “work” is generally the photographer or, in certain situations, the employer of the photographer. Even if a person hires a photographer to take pictures of a wedding, for example, the photographer will own the copyright in the photographs unless the copyright in the photographs is transferred, in writing and signed by the copyright owner, to another person. The subject of the photograph generally has nothing to do with the ownership of the copyright in the photograph. If the photographer is no longer living, the rights in the photograph are determined by the photographer’s will or passed as personal property by the applicable laws of intestate succession."



    "party may seek to protect his or her copyrights against unauthorized use by filing a civil lawsuit in federal district court. If you believe that your copyright has been infringed, consult an attorney. In cases of willful infringement for profit, the U.S. Attorney may initiate a criminal investigation."

    http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-fairuse.html
     
  13. quid

    quid I Piss Excellence OT Supporter

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    This is all well and good but how much money does this shop have and what dollar value do you place on those 3 photos? Sure you can sue them but that costs money and time.

    Judging by his "LOL whatever" I don't think quoting copyright code sections will change anything too much; he might take the pics down though...

    That is to say, i agree with your previous post.
     
  14. Wheezer

    Wheezer OT Supporter

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    Yep, like I said, he needs to use this as a lesson, unless his pride is worth the legal fees.
     
  15. Stock

    Stock New Member

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    To clarify, I don't really want to have to "force" him to take them down. I'd like to think that he and I have a better relationship than that but he can be a baby sometimes. I just want to have my bases covered if he starts swinging his dick around.

    My reply to him:

    Hoping for a smooth ending... :x:
     
  16. tenplanescrashing

    tenplanescrashing Active Member

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    Lesson should be learned, yes, but I also think he needs to respond to shop with something to the degree of:

    "Not sure what LOL Whatever. is in reference to, but I would appreciate a professional & honest response from you/your shop. If you would like to continue the use of my images, I have attached them in this email, resized appropriate, and release rights to you to let you use them for your website only. Should you wish to use them in any other form of communication, please contact me directly.

    If you do not wish to use these and continue to use the existing images displayed on your site, I am kindly asking you with this email to remove them from your website and to not use them in any other aspect of your business. As a photographer, I don't appreciate a business taking advantage of someone else's work without representation or permission.

    If you wish to speak with me, please call me. xxx.xxx.xxxx.

    Thank you.
     
  17. Wobistdu

    Wobistdu Guest

    sucks how people really dont think it's a big deal to use your pics
     
  18. alexromo

    alexromo New Member

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    werd

    that guy is being a total ass about it too

    LOL WHATEVER!!!
     
  19. Heinzanova

    Heinzanova OT Supporter

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  20. YourMomOnRyeBun

    YourMomOnRyeBun New Member

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    Are you sure the "LOL Whatever" is directed at YOU?

    He could he saying that about what he is going through with the other issue. Sometimes things are taken out of context when said in PM/email/etc

    He seems like he is cool with the other requests.

    If he JUST said LOL Whatever...then I would say "blow me. You will be hearing from a lawyer".
     
  21. BeachBoy

    BeachBoy New Member

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    If you take a picture of a Nascar car, I don't think you can use this picture for an ad without asking Nascar and/or the team.

    Same here, you can say they can't use your picture for their website, but they can say you can't use the pictures elsewhere.

    Same thing when you snap someone in the street, it's tricky as you took the picture, but it's not "your" content.

    Seriously, I would just be happy with a link and credits.

    The logo is another issue and I would look at it with a lawyer.
     
  22. quid

    quid I Piss Excellence OT Supporter

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    wat.

    You're talking about 2 different issues, and you're mostly wrong. It is entirely his content, photographer owns the picture, period (obviously unless he/she is working inside an agreement which forfeits his/her rights to the work). Nascar can't come appropriate my work because I took a picture at a Nascar event. You are almost right that there is a huge grey area about whether or not I can use a picture I take of a Nascar in advertisements for my own business. But this has to do with laws regarding endorsements and spokespersons not copyrights you can use pictures of people in the street, you can't use them as the face of your company because that makes them a spokesperson which requires an agreement. This is further complicated by the person's "brand." I can't use a picture of Angelina Jole because she has built a brand around herself, its not the same situation as a random person on the street. You might also know that no one asked Jessica Simpson for permission to print fatty bikini pictures of her to sell some rags because she has nothing to do with the copyright of the photos.
     
  23. Wheezer

    Wheezer OT Supporter

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    Actually, NASCAR images are copyrighted (along with other sports franchises). If you take a picture of say Jimmie Johnson's car going around the track and then use it for your business or make a profit off of it without permission from NASCAR, you can be sued.

    The same goes for some buildings. The architecture can be copyrighted and you cannot use your shots for business gain without a release.
     
  24. quid

    quid I Piss Excellence OT Supporter

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    Well Nascar example is a bad one then. :wiggle:

    edit: Stumbled on this article:
    Weatherproof Garment Co said on Monday it will take down a Times Square billboard of U.S. President Barack Obama wearing one of its coats, agreeing to a White House request even though the company said it had legal grounds for using his image in its advertisement.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2010

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