GUN Questions about training?

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by ShackleMeNot, Feb 20, 2008.

  1. ShackleMeNot

    ShackleMeNot MINDSET

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    Rather than training being an afterthought, or often not a thought at all, I'd like to promote the idea that it is a necessary part of defensive gun ownership. Gun owners that take training overwhelmingly report that the experience was positive and they learned more than they thought they would.

    So, I don't know everything about training or the industry but I know more than most. For those that do not know who I am, I run a fairly large training school and I attend a decent amount of training on my own dime at other schools. If you have any questions about any aspect related to training I'll attempt to answer them. I hope those that have take a class or three will chime in with opinions as well.
     
  2. JaimeZX

    JaimeZX Formerly of :Sep 2001: fame - Also: Sprout Crew OT Supporter

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    I'm still planning to go to the FP in June. Might bring the wife too. :x:
     
  3. AustinL911

    AustinL911 Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator

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    TDI Ohio is on my list. Multiple classes that I'd love to take there. Other schools aren't out of the picture either, but I think I'll start there since it's local.

    Gotta free up some funding first, then it's lots of guns, ammo, and training for Austin.
     
  4. ShackleMeNot

    ShackleMeNot MINDSET

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    We had a tactical engagement in class today.
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Aequitas

    Aequitas If it keeps on raining, levee's going to break.

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    How do I find classes that are being held in my area? N Florida that is.
     
  6. ShackleMeNot

    ShackleMeNot MINDSET

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    Did you have a question???

    Just kidding.

    TDI is a good school. Go there. Take classes. Post reviews here. DO IT!
     
  7. AustinL911

    AustinL911 Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator

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    P.S. Thoughts on TDI?

    Err....too late. I'd like to hit up your fighting pistol and possibly fighting rifle class in West Jeff., Oh if I can get my shit together in time.
     
  8. ShackleMeNot

    ShackleMeNot MINDSET

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    There are lots of traveling instructors and schools. Central FL is a more popular training area. I know we'll be back to Titusville this year and surrounding SHOT Show in 2009. Atlanta may be your closest city with regular training being conducted. Check out David Blinder's school (PDT). He does some good stuff and hosts a lot of other instructors.
     
  9. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

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    what are some examples of classes for complete beginners? :o
     
  10. ShackleMeNot

    ShackleMeNot MINDSET

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    Complete, complete beginners? Like never seen a gun before?

    NRA First Steps or NRA Basic Pistol.

    Cheap, easy and available in just about every major city.

    For someone with a little more experience, any of the major schools' tactical pistol (our Fighting Pistol) should be designed to take someone from a near zero starting point and teach them from there.

    Front Sight has a good reputation for a slow paced (500 rounds in 4 days) pistol class that beginner students seem to like. It's a skills class not a tactics class but for $100 for an eBay cert you can't really argue with that.

    We had an 11 year old girl in Fighting Pistol in Vegas last week. It was her first professional training anywhere and she did great. I think she showed without a doubt that it's all about bringing an open mind.

    The important thing is that you start somewhere. Make it a priority. Sign up and take a class.
     
  11. ShackleMeNot

    ShackleMeNot MINDSET

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    He no longer works for us.
     
  12. Aequitas

    Aequitas If it keeps on raining, levee's going to break.

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    Thanks, I'll check into those. I just recently got my NRA Basic Pistol Instructor certification in December of 07, should be adding rifle and shotgun after hunting season. I would just like to take more tactics classes.
     
  13. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

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    i should have been a little more specific :hs: i know my way around handguns and rifles and have done a little IDPA and three gun.

    i guess im looking for that official step to take me from "having fun" to "real training" :cool:
     
  14. jeepilot

    jeepilot Banned

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    where in central Missouri could I take a class for around $200
    ?
     
  15. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    I'd be interested in hearing what you think of some of the more controversial instructors like suarez or ayoob. I'd also understand if you wanted to say nothing :)
     
  16. saxman

    saxman Burninating the peasants

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    Do you know how much room you have in your Sacramento FP class? Myself an a couple friends would like to take it.
     
  17. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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    I think instead of being lazy, you should actually call or email Tactical Response for class availability and schedule questions. It would get answers faster.


    Shay, for shooters who are beginners with no training at all (maybe just purchased their first firearm), would you recommend that they take a basic marksmanship class prior to taking a class that teaches them how to fight with their firearm? Would not taking that marksmanship class slow them down or frustrate that shooter enough so as to distract from their ability to learn at a fighting class? I think a lot of people may hesitate to take quality training because they are intimidated, thinking that their marksmanship skills need to be up to a certain level beforehand. Is there such a level?
     
  18. AustinL911

    AustinL911 Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator

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    That's kinda why I'm hesitating to take tactics training (along with being poor). I'm not bad with a handgun, but I'm no marksman either. I could really stand to have someone show me proper grip, stance, breathing, trigger, etc....
     
  19. sprite

    sprite Active Member

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    Aside from Google, how does one go about determining who is a credible, qualified and experienced trainer? What do you look for in an instructor, and in a course when you take someone elses training?

    In other words, how do I know that "Tactical Timmy's 1337 Pistol Operator & General Killing Sorcery 101" course is worth a shit, let alone $400-$600? If Tactical Timmy lists a resume of "Certified Handgun Instructor and Champion Competitive Shooter, with over 20 years of combined Military & Law Enforcement Experience", how do I know that doesn't mean he has a basic NRA cert, won a local .22LR bullseye competition in 1983, and became a reserve deputy for a rural county sheriff after serving 4 years as a sonar tech in the Navy?
     
  20. ShackleMeNot

    ShackleMeNot MINDSET

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    I don't know off the top of my head how many spaces are left but I know the class is almost full. When it hits "wait list" you can only get in if someone else drops out.
     
  21. sneakyjesus

    sneakyjesus New Member

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    EDIT: awaiting your list on approved schools, thanks

    Good Thread Idea!

    Do you have any thoughts about 'Firearmz' in the Atlanta area? The 'z' kinda makes me wonder. I thought about taking their fighting rifle class. It's instructed by Ken Forbus. I highly respect your opinions and look forward to your thoughts.

    However, I am paid up for FP when you guys come to Atlanta.

    Thanks

    PS.
    My dream vacation? TR HRCC shooting/medical/driving package of course...
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2008
  22. ShackleMeNot

    ShackleMeNot MINDSET

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    I see no problem with learning skills (marksmanship) in context (fighting). In fact, I think that people who learn concepts in the abstract don't always imprint them properly and have to relearn basic skills once they have to actually apply them under stress.

    Everyone is different. Some would be frustrated, I'm sure. Some would not. I think if someone tries to be an immediate perfectionist with marksmanship rather than learning to improve as they go they will have far more trouble learning regardless of which path they take.

    If learning fighting is your goal don't get caught up in learning and practicing things and buying guns that don't support your goal. If you just want to shoot cans off fence posts, do what ever you want. Fight training IS unique.

    You don't need to be able to shoot tiny groups to take your first class. You DO need to be able to be safe. Understand the 4 cardinal firearm safety rules and be able to apply them with other people around. That's it? Yes, that's it.

    There is no formal starting point. I've run out of ways to tell people to just sign up and take their first class. You should come to class with an open mind and be ready to learn. Instructors are supposed to TEACH you something. If you have to know it all already than it wasn't much of a learning experience for you.
     
  23. ShackleMeNot

    ShackleMeNot MINDSET

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    How many guns do you own? Sell one or two and take a class. Or simply make it your top priority to take a class this year and save every spare penny toward that goal. You will do it if you make it a priority.

    When you take training you make every round fired after that class more valuable. Practice begins to be purposeful. You see improvement in your skills. With the cost of ammo these days anything that makes you better with the ammo you have is a good thing.

    I typically shoot between 200 and 500 rounds when I go to the range for a day. I practice specific skills drills and/or tactics and each one of those shots has a purpose. I don't waste ammo like I used to. I hit my targets or I know why I didn't hit if I miss.
     
  24. ShackleMeNot

    ShackleMeNot MINDSET

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    Good question.

    What I look for in an instructor or school is what their students say about them. Yes, you will typically see positives put out in public but AARs have value because if you know how to read them you can get a feel for what the focus of the class is and what the instructor is having the students do. Try to find pictures and video of actual class footage.

    Some schools are skills schools. Some work more on tactics. A few schools teach fighting. Sadly, some schools are more about their ranges and facilities than what they are actually teaching.

    There's nothing wrong with having nice ranges but if that is the first thing mentioned over and over in student reviews of classes you might want to think about that. Are the facilities really that important to the learning process? I've been on some multi-million dollar ranges and had very mediocre training. I've also had some of the best training in my career in a cow pasture. Unless your goal is to hang out with Mickey Mouse at the Magic Kingdom for a weekend, beware of the "Disneyland experience". That's all I'm saying.

    I typically won't send students to another school that hasn't been around for a few years. Why? Because it's easy to start a school. It's much harder to keep one running.

    I'll put together a list of other schools and instructors I recommend and I'll post it here.
     
  25. ShackleMeNot

    ShackleMeNot MINDSET

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    Sorry, I missed this one the first time through.

    I don't even think of Ayoob as controversial. Maybe he was years ago but most of what he writes and teaches is not really pushing the boundaries at all. He has his niche as the "legal guy". For someone without a law degree to be the default "legal guy" he must be doing something right in that area. My opinion is that his shooting curriculum is weak and dated.

    Some people love Gabe and some people hate him. He is one of the very few instructors that I think cares more about his students' abilities to fight than his own reputation in the industry. I routinely send our students to his classes because I know they will leave better fighters.
     

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