SRS question about AA and their theory

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by wraithlead, Nov 28, 2006.

  1. wraithlead

    wraithlead Representing the No Av crew

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    Okay, i guess in full disclosure...I was one of those people who denied a problem, then denied the seriousness of it, then fully accepted that i had a drinking problem but did nothing to fix it. I have now committed to stopping, but i'm only on day three. The only thing is i'm already a religious person, have never had a problem accepting criticism, but have had bad experiences at school, religious groups, etc. with people assuming i'm just being a know-it-all. Because of my deeply religious background, i had been brought up my whole life to understand that the acceptance of a higher being, honest evaluation and righting your wrongs are all integral to recovery/stability, so once i got past acceptance and committment to change, i had a headstart on pretty much all except steps 10, 11, and 12, because those require continuous work. Does it ever happen where some people just need encouragement, but they don't need the convincing that comes with the territory sometimes?

    Also, since i don't believe in interfaith at all, though i am a christian, is it possible to go to the meetings without being present for group prayer, etc.?

    Thank you for reading this.
     
  2. Create

    Create :free at last:

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    Drop the arrogance, entirely. All of it. Do it now.

    Commit to the program. Three days? You've got the rest of your life ahead.

    You need the convincing. You havn't even made step two: 2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

    See step two and drop the arrogance. It was Jesus who taught us that it is our obligation to influence the non-believers. It was Jesus who taught us to not only tolerate but accept others, despite their flaws. You may label yourself as you wish, but your conceptualizations of the lessons of Christianity are seriously misguided. Don't be so sure of your faith. never be so sure. There's always more to learn.

    Now that all that's done: AA is a spiritual organization, not a Christian one. While you can find meetings with a Christian base, most are not.

    Your prayer is quite simple (all join hands): God, please grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; the courage to change the things I can; and the wisdom to know the difference.

    If you can't handle that, alcoholism is the lesser of two evils. Go work on your spiritual base first.
     
  3. wraithlead

    wraithlead Representing the No Av crew

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    This response is exactly what i wasn't looking for at the meetings. I don't have arrogance. The only point to even asking the original question was to see if people were going to assume that i was just like everyone else they've talked to, because i've had that happen before. I am not. I have indeed accepted that I higher power is the way to restore my sanity. I just prefer to get that guidance from a minister i have worked with before. I also do a lot more bible reading/meditation/study than i did before.

    I understand that three days is nothing, and that it will get worse before it gets better. I'm not acting like I've already done anything important, only that I know I have to do something important.

    Now that all that's done: the part I bolded was actually the information i was looking for. I'm not afraid of that quote, but since i've never been before, and am working through new territory here, i'm sure you understand how that could be a misconception of mine about the group.

    And about my christianity, you don't know me. edit: I'll leave it at that. I'm not trying to be combative, and i've never said i know all there is to know.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2006
  4. wraithlead

    wraithlead Representing the No Av crew

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    okay, so i spoke with a volunteer at one of the local meetings on the phone. i feel much better about it after speaking with an actual person. i was worried, because i wanted to make sure it was right for me. i've decided i'm gonna go to my first meeting tomorrow...wish me luck.
     
  5. Colonel Panic

    Colonel Panic New Member

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    If you can go in with an open mind, you will learn the difference between religion and spirituality. It can be an incredible awakening from what you already believe.

    Try to make 90 meetings in 90 days. Mix them up with lead (speaker) , Big Book discussions, 12x12, and alcohol related topic meetings. Travel around until you get comfortable with your favorites. Get to know as many people as possible and when you find someone who's sobriety you admire, ask him to be your sponsor.

    Remember that most of the people at the meetings are just like you and are committed to living sober and helping other alcoholics.

    Good luck.
     
  6. wraithlead

    wraithlead Representing the No Av crew

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    I do agree with the difference between religion and spirituality. i think it's how people of different religions build a basis of mutual respect.

    I don't see 90 meetings in 90 days as a possibility. I have multiple religious meetings through the week, and i'm trying to make my attendance at those better. I am going to try to go to as many as possible starting with tonight, until i find out whether i lose my driver's license.

    I have to read some more info. I read, so i know about the Big Book, and lead meetings, and alcohol related topic meetings. I don't know what 12x12 means. I'll look that up before i go.
     
  7. Create

    Create :free at last:

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    I'm glad you decided to attend a meeting. I'm sorry for my combative nature. It was not very constructive.

    Be sure to let us know what you thought. I know I went to quite a few meetings before I found a group I really liked. They are not all good, positive groups. If the first one doesn't fit, don't give up on AA as a whole.

    If you check the stickies you'll find a ton of info. AA even has a full, published version of the Big Book availible on their website.

    There's some great stuff in the Big Book. I sometimes go to it when I'm feeling weak.

    This passage also serves as an example of how AA includes spirituality without religon. The passage is often referred to as "the promises". Please, those with experience, excuse me if I got a word wrong here or there. I'm typing from memory.

    The Bible is full of passages as well. I pick up that book just as often.

    Some favorites:
    Romans 12, 1-3
    Corinthians 2, 12-15
    Philippians 4, 6-8
     
  8. wraithlead

    wraithlead Representing the No Av crew

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    okay, so i went. i thought it was helpful, and i'll be going back next week. they brought up a lot of good points, and they made 'one day at a time' seem like more than a cliche, and i liked that. they gave me a starter pack that had a meeting directory, so i'll be finding meetings for the other days i can make it. my friends don't want me to drink, so they're happy to help, but it's the days like today when after work i'm by myself that this was really helpful.

    hopefully the other groups i attend will be as good as this one.
     
  9. i killed tupac

    i killed tupac New Member

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    try Narcotics Anonymous, we are alot less religious. Most of our meeting close with serenity prayer, or a Gratitude statement. Not usually a prayer. However, no one will care if you do not join the circle-its ok :)

    We are each free to develop and choose our own higher power-its good that you have a basis for that, but you are not ready to turn your will and life over to it, since you dont really understand the disease and what it means. So, start with step one and go from there

    Or, do like you are trying to, and start with step 3, and you will most likely relapse. Sorry.
     
  10. wraithlead

    wraithlead Representing the No Av crew

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    what a few of the people there last night were saying makes sense to me. I spoke to them after the meeting was officially over. they disagreed with what you said.

    just because i haven't been to any AA meetings before doesn't mean i haven't spoken with a minister about my drinking before. I heard all of what is in step one before yesterday. back in July, the most recent time i heard about powerlessness and the need for a higher power to intervene, i dismissed it too easily. Now i look at it differently, and the last five months have led me to accept what you call step one, but what i have been hearing for a long time. They were very against the 'one size fits all' treatment, and wanted me to get a feel for what i needed from aa. i agree with that, and the best way for me to do so is to continue going to the group i went to last night and to find other meetings for other days where i can get what i need from those too.
     
  11. i killed tupac

    i killed tupac New Member

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    well, every meeting is different, there are alot of great AA meetings too, and it is true, without AA there would be no NA, and i can only speak from my own experience
     
  12. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    Yes, I have a friend that was worried about his drinking and where his life was heading. He started attending meetings, got a sponsor and started working the steps. Then he found he liked the lifestyle of not drinking, found a wife and got married. He quit going to meetings and has been sober ever since. It was about 2-4 years ago when he started going to meetings with me. Now he admited to being an alcoholic and that he needed help. However, later on he just realized that he would drink when he was bored.

    I dunno...I tried to stay sober on my own and it did work. Not only did I drink again but I was miserable when I was sober. I hated life and I needed help to stop drinking. AA helped me deal with all the stuff that life throws at us without having to pick up a drink. For me, I don't think it would have been possible to sober up on my own....I needed help. However, if you are able to....more power to ya.
    Sure. I've seen people go get a drink of water or leave or go to the restroom right before the prayer. It's only the lords prayer and there's a lot of fellowship that goes on afterwards....which is very helpful to staying sober. So if you miss the prayer, be sure to stick around for the fellowship.

    As others have said, it's a spiritual program, not religous. I used to be a bible thumpin Christian. I used to believe that it was my job to help save the world. I used to believe that if you didn't agree with my beliefs, that you were going to hell and it was my job to help bring you back to God. In other words, I was extremely aggressive with my beliefs.

    Thankfully, in AA I don't have to do that anymore. I can let others believe however they want and I can believe whatever I want and we can all stay sober together in AA. I don't have to convice them I'm right nor get in any arguments about whose higher power is higher. Live and let live is something we say and I try to practice it all the time.

    Please don't let your past experiences keep you from attending AA meetings if you need them. Like I said before, people do sober up without AA but the chances of success are much greater in the program.

    Oh and one last thing.....before you start working on the step, get a sponsor and tell him/her that you want to start working on the steps. Then ask them to teach you to do what they did. You may find that working the steps are significantly more challenging that way....and that's a good thing.
     
  13. FlyBoy07

    FlyBoy07 New Member

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    How about an update? What has happened in the last four weeks?
     
  14. wraithlead

    wraithlead Representing the No Av crew

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    well, i've been trying to go to the meetings everyday that i don't go to my own religious meetings. everyone that knows me is happy about my decision to stop and they try to help, but they don't "get it" at least not totally. the meetings are good for me. I had the one relapse that was in the other thread(a considerable amount > 500mL), and I had one of those little two dollar bottles last friday, but felt so guilty it firmed my resolve to get better at going to the AA meetings. i also called over my friends that don't want me drinking so I wouldn't have anymore that night.

    this week, i've been good. I haven't made it to a meeting, because all of my family is in town, I have pink eye and shouldn't leave the house, and when i tried to find a meeting this morning, it was moved and i couldn't find where to. I am going to a meeting @10 am tomorrow. I think I have found a suitable meeting for monday, wednesday, and friday night. i'm still looking for maybe a saturday afternoon, but with volunteering at my church saturday morning and early afternoon i might not have a chance. I have religious functions sunday tuesday and thursday and those have provided the encouragement i need for those days.

    I'm not perfect yet, but two things are helping me progress. remembering what day 1 is like, and all the positive reinforcement. I know it sounds bad, but i was really proud of myself for stopping on friday after i had so little. as soon as my work schedule etc get back to normal, i'm hoping to settle into a routine.

    I don't enjoy not being able to sleep at night, but since i'm not hung over in the morning, i can do as much on 3.5 hrs sleep as i could before on 8. i'm working out more, like i used to, and the combination of not drinking and exercise gives me something physical to be proud of, something that helps when the headaches or moodiness comes.

    Please give feedback as long as it isn't "you suck cause you had a drink" or "you suck because you don't plan on 30 meetings in 30 days."
     
  15. Colonel Panic

    Colonel Panic New Member

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    You'll never hear those words from anyone in the program. We're here to help, not condemn. We are not Saints. We seek progress, not perfection.

    From AA-How it Works:
    RARELY HAVE we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.

    Now if you can only be as honest with your Dr. as you are with us.
     
  16. i killed tupac

    i killed tupac New Member

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    sounds like you are getting a little bit of sanity back in your life, please keep us updated
     
  17. FlyBoy07

    FlyBoy07 New Member

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    Congratulations on making the effort to stay sober. I'm sure you have heard it before but Keep Coming Back.
     
  18. wayne and zeus

    wayne and zeus oh it will, won't it

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    keep coming back
     
  19. wraithlead

    wraithlead Representing the No Av crew

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    i went to another meeting today. my job changed my location so i was able to go to a meeting five minutes away on my lunch break. i'm still hanging in there, but today was hard. thank god for the meeting i went to.
     
  20. wraithlead

    wraithlead Representing the No Av crew

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    on the other hand, this weekend was great. i hung out with friends, i didn't drink, and while i have had times where i hung out with them, this was the first time that i actually thought it was fun. just playing cards, nothing real fancy. i don't celebrate the holidays.
     
  21. anomaly

    anomaly If you weren't around for the original HA.net spli

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    I do have one question, are you willing to accept help from other recovering people who do not share your own beliefs on god, as long as they let you hold your beliefs without interfering with them?

    You need to find a sponsor my friend, while a minister can do quite a bit, he is likely not in recovery (though I have met some who were), and as such do not understand some of your most basic drives and motivations. Hence religion ALONE doing so little to help people recover from alcohol prior to AA.

    Be willing to listen, you might even hear something that saves your life from a Buddhist, Jain, Agnostic, Atheist, or Satanist...
     
  22. wraithlead

    wraithlead Representing the No Av crew

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    yes, i'm open to that. just the 'not interfering' part you mentioned is really important to me. i have gone to a few more meetings now, and i think i'm gonna find a sponsor at the one i'm going to during the day. I also see that my friends, my family, and my ministers are all well intentioned, but since they haven't been through it and aren't trained to handle it, they are limited in the help they can give. that's why i went to aa in the first place.
     
  23. nonfinite

    nonfinite New Member

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    wraithlead, I've found that it's usually wise to find a sponsor that shares similar views to yours. Some would say, (and often have,) that you should find someone who posseses traits that you want in yourself.

    After going through two sponsors, I've been with my third for a year and a half, and have made incredible progress with him.
     
  24. anomaly

    anomaly If you weren't around for the original HA.net spli

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    I'm glad you are open to the idea. I hope you're able to stay sober.
     
  25. wraithlead

    wraithlead Representing the No Av crew

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    how long should i give it before trying to find a sponsor? according to what you're saying, it seems like i shouldn't walk in to my first meeting and ask someone to do that? I have gone to the same one three weeks in a row. and i like the guys there.
     

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