psychology & relationships

Discussion in 'Vaginarium' started by JohnJohnJohnson, May 13, 2008.

  1. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    the entire field of psychology is basically a way to throw scientific terms around, in order to hold up the cultural status quo.

    i didn't need proof to realize this fact, but i rarely get as good a demonstration of it as i did today:

    [​IMG]

    Just think how completely absurd and obsolete the suggestions of modern shrinks today will be 90 yrs from now.

    edit: this post may be sensationalist bullshit akin to someone posting an outdated scientific belief in order to prove that all of science is flawed. in the event that this post is sensationalist bullshit, please disregard it.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2008
  2. demosnat

    demosnat New Member

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    Your assumptions about things you're not educated on never fail to floor me.
     
  3. demosnat

    demosnat New Member

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    -This was published 30 years before cognitive psychology was even a phrase
    -Besides that, this is a 'worry column' from a newspaper in the 30's, this is psychology pop culture, its not 'psychology' anymore than the "what personality type are you! FIND OUT NOW!" buttons at the top of shitty websites are or the "what type of girl is right for you" from maxim is.
    -Have I mentioned this was the 30s? Look at anthropology in the 30s, paleontology, and other non-mathematical discipline. I don't think the DSM was even around in the 30s, but I could be wrong about that.
    For as smart as you are your critical thinking skills really seem to be lacking.

    The assumptions of therapists today will probably seem obsolete in 90 years, so will our modern conceptions about art, philosophy, culture, sex, etc. That doesn't mean the exploration is any less valid, and that exploration helps us build towards a greater understanding of 'truth'. Better to see the light at an odd angle than sit angrily and deliberately in the dark because the first step can't be into the full sun.

    Aristotle (I think) had laws of attraction, they were way off base, but his step towards dealing with physics AT ALL have led us to a fuller understanding of the natural world, his not getting it right the first time doesn't mean he shouldn't have delved into physics.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2008
  4. Alaya

    Alaya Active Member

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  5. Alaya

    Alaya Active Member

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    JJJ - this is totally off subject but what is exactly is your AV supposed to be? I can't help but think everytime I see it it is a reference to "He's got the whole world in his hands" which is religious. I know you're not particularly religious so I'm assuming that's not at all what it's a reference to :o It's driving me nuts.
     
  6. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    that... is a glass ball in someone's hand. i picked a random google image. i don't even like it anymore but i find it annoying when people change images so i've kept it
     
  7. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    yeah cognitive-behavioral psych could be okay.

    most shrinks are not cognitive-behavioral psychologists. right?

    i react very poorly to the cold-reading elements of psych, which are shared by fortune tellers around the world. it drives me nuts.

    also, the incredible lack of testability in MANY psych experiments is something that throws me off.

    e.g., the famous dart-throwing experiment where they verified that gay men have a higher vulnerability to oedipal complexes based on the fact that - their accuracy decreased more than the accuracy of heterosexual males when presented with subliminal messages about fornicating with mommy.

    and evolutionary psych... well if i'm actually ignorant about it then i won't take a firm stance on it. i hope the amount that i do know is the exception to the rule.
     
  8. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    it just seems like a trend. the PhD's analysis of bad wives. (call it pop psych if u want, the guy's an MD though). the disease of homosexuality.

    i wonder what other wonderful things we call diseases.
     
  9. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    if you find me a new AV that you think fits me and is not too offensive, then I will change it.
     
  10. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    Yeah. I could see that argument coming because I've made it myself. I have to make it when people pick & choose from the scientific tenets they find convenient for their particular religion's doctrinal propositions.

    The issues I have with psych in particular, I describe in my later post. But you're right, I probably have an inaccurate understanding of psych given that I only took 1 class on it.
     
  11. iwishyouwerebeer

    iwishyouwerebeer you shut your cunt Moderator

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    Honestly I'm curious, I've always seen you basically put off the idea of seeing a psychiatrist, psychologist, etc.

    What is it that you have against these people? They give far more help to those who are lost than pretty much anyone else. Did you have a bad experience with one? Or is it that you are so self aware of yourself and your issues that you think you can fix them without anyone's help? Either way I don't know why you disregard psychology in general when you yourself spout it off from time to time :dunno:
     
  12. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    i'm not sure what you're referring to what i've said that qualifies as psychology, but i probably just view whatever it is as just intuitive. common sense, in analytical terms.

    my default stance is skepticism probably because my dad instilled that in me at an early age. for whatever reason he scoffed at psych.

    then that is further enhanced by some really EGREGIOUS examples of bullshit presented to me in a pretty standard, broad-reaching psych class called "personality" where we went into detailed overviews of various approaches (rogerian, freudian, behavioral-cognitive, etc.). there were many examples of logically perverse conclusions presented as common psychology. straight from the textbook.

    so my initially skeptical opinion got strengthened and at this point i look at psych that way by default.

    i've seen two or three shrinks in my life for very short periods of time as per recommendation. i enjoyed seeing them a lot cuz i got to talk on end and think out loud. i found them easy to manipulate and i also felt like i could outsmart them, which needless to say did not improve my opinion of the field at all.

    if i'm missing information, then obviously that is the issue here.
     
  13. iwishyouwerebeer

    iwishyouwerebeer you shut your cunt Moderator

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    I can understand the skepticism, I was just curious. I definitely don't think therapy is for everyone. Obviously in your case you got stuck with two inadequate psychs who were easily manipulated; and also I think I was right when I said there are also people (such as yourself and even me) who are aware of themselves, their problems and are intelligent enough who then choose to fix things on their own.

    However, I hardly think (and apparently demosnat agrees) that you can put psychology in such a small box just because of that pop psyhology course you took. Psychology as a whole is not all Pavlov's dogs and that bullshit, the same way feminism isn't just a bunch of man-hating bra-burning bitches.
     
  14. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    I'm open to any legitimate research or whatever that people have done.

    Isn't it kind of weird though that SO MUCH of the field is so filled with horseshit.

    At the very least, psych is extremely susceptible to bullshit. It's annoying too because psych borrows a lot of its tone from science... partly because science is governed by uniquely anti-bullshit, empirical guidelines. So there is something perverse going on when a scientific tone is borrowed without using the scientific guidelines that gave science its credibility.
     
  15. vodkacollins

    vodkacollins New Member

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    research about what exactly? i myself was a psych major and love the subject (dont have a higher degree in the subject, but am interested in persuing it eventually)

    i agree that a lot of psych is bullshit, but a lot of it is not

    i have gone a couple times and have actually gotten a lot of value out of going, being able to open up about whatver was bothering me at the time and having the psychologist ask a few key questions to get my mind thinking in a different way. i know that people have to be open to it to have it have any effect though, and its not for everyone.
     
  16. iwishyouwerebeer

    iwishyouwerebeer you shut your cunt Moderator

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    :werd: I used to be a psych major and I absolutely loved it once I got deeper into the subject. Obviously anything has the ability to not be a set fact, but that shouldn't discredit when a theory is relatively correct most of the time.

    I went to therapy a few times and really enjoyed it. After only those few times I immediately knew what I needed to change/do/fix in my life and so I never went again, but I did absoutely love talking to someone who was unbiased of my life and opinions. When you find a really good one they have the ability to ask these strange little questions that you would never think of and almost crack the code of your issues.

    My sister has finally started seeing a psychiatrist (at my desperate plea) and beforehand she was skeptical. She loves it now! Says her therapist has made her realize more about herself than she or anyone else could have ever pointed out. She's also now finally on the right kinds of meds and is for once even-tempered and sane.
     
  17. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    yeah it's funny i was strongly tempted to major in psych.

    i chose not to because i think i "psychologize" people enough as it is. as witnessed by iwywb here in the vag.

    i also didn't want to start the trainwreck of analyzing myself any more than i automatically do.

    so it was like a dark temptation.

    however, i, like you, am capable of distinguishing between
    - finding something fascinating or really really fun to "learn," and
    - finding something valid or truthful.

    the scientific trappings in which psych covers its ass are what make me so scornful of it. nothing attempting to borrow the credibility of hard science should be so lax regarding good vs. bad reasons for belief.
     
  18. vodkacollins

    vodkacollins New Member

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    i felt the same way with one or two meetings with a shrink i saw not long after my mother passed. helped me to see things in a different light. she mostly just listened to me speak, and then just asked one simple question that no one else had thought to ask me. "did you tell her goodbye?" changed everything

    its good to hear your sister is getting some help for herself and feeling good because of it.

    i remember my very first psych class included a lot of history, which was a lot of the theories that just dont work in this modern world, but it shows the progression of the field. jjj, maybe the class you took included more of the history and not as much of what people are currently doing?
     
  19. vodkacollins

    vodkacollins New Member

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    so do you find truth in nothing about psych, or just certain theories?
     
  20. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    it was the loose-handed, off-the-cuff, free-wheeling attitude towards a theory's need for evidence that got me.

    i'm not knowledgeable enough anymore to attest to the quality of individual theories. from my vague recollection, the least offensive of all of them was the behavioral-cognitive model.
     
  21. vodkacollins

    vodkacollins New Member

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    yeah, you are right. im not sure freud had any evidence for what he believed was the truth. same with a lot of the other old theories that you probably learned about in your class

    its been ages since i have looked at my books or my notes, but there is a lot of research and evidence done to support more of the modern ways of thinking about counseling (i took a whole class on how to prove or disprove my theories in psych)
     
  22. Bubba Atlantis

    Bubba Atlantis New Member

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    Being in psychology, I felt the need to reply to this thread, but I think you covered everything. :)

    Taking something from 1939 and making assumptions based off of that is foolish.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2008
  23. Bubba Atlantis

    Bubba Atlantis New Member

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    CBT is actually the second most common form of therapy :)

    Also, good experiments are testable (it is called validity and reliability). The foundation of many theories are based on experiments repeated exponentially.

    I feel the use of fortune tellers as proof of your point is rather poor. There is a huge difference between an educated psychologist and a fortune teller. That is like saying....well at this present moment I can not come up with a similar comparision, but it is the same as basing your opinion of a professional in ANYTHING off of an amateur or a fake

    As for your study example, I have never heard of it. Want to give the reference. I suspect it was a fairly old study. Now, I know the point you are trying to make. A better and more known study of this similar phenomena is making African American's conscious of their ethnicity prior to doing an exam. By doing so, they, statistically, score lower. This is because of negative stereotypes associated with ethnicities and gender (same as women or Asians and math)

     
  24. demosnat

    demosnat New Member

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    :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

    I'm an idiot, not as big an idiot as you are mind you, but I finally realized I had never bothered to see what the top score you could get was, so I came back here and did (yes, this thread drove me nuts even from afar)

    The top score you can get is a failing grade, I don't think this was meant to be taken seriously.
     
  25. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    geez. :o

    point maken
     

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