programmer and networkers, need your help debunking myth.

Discussion in 'OT Technology' started by ds3, Mar 19, 2004.

  1. ds3

    ds3 Guest

    One thing i've noticed when playing FPS's like counter-strike and most recently Battlefield: Vietnam i've noticed that if thier is someone on the server with a higher ping than everyone else (400+) everyone starts complaining and asking admins to kick him. They seem to believe that someone elses high ping will end up affecting their latency. In all my years of computers and networking i honestly find it hard to believe.

    Can anyone give me a valid reason why that might be true. If so, please ellaborate with real technical information.
  2. crotchfruit

    crotchfruit Guest

    To preface this, I have actually been playing in a game in which general ping was bad (e.g. ~200 instead of ~70), the admin came on and kicked the high pingers (~400) and everyone else's ping went down to ~70.. so I have seen the effect first hand (like seeing a UFO?)

    I think the key here is that the ping you see in the game score page isn't the same thing as the ping you see when you use the ping command from the console. The ping you see in the score page is a more realistic rating of how quickly you are getting gamestate changes from the server.

    I believe that most game engines right now have some sort of compensation for HPBs. For example, the server will determine the average "real ping" for all the players, then slow down some of the faster players' "game ping" so that they don't have such a greater advantage.

    So the question is, "why doesn't the game run as fast as possible, and just screw the HPBs?" I don't know a good answer to this question.
  3. uneek

    uneek New Member OT Supporter

    Dec 14, 2003
    Likes Received:
    Even if it doesn't affect your ping, per-se, there are noticeable effects.

    400 is pretty high for Counterstrike nowadays... back in the day it wasn't that bad though.
  4. ds3

    ds3 Guest


    well, I can almost gaurantee that your wrong about the server trying to compensate.

    i always here people say "its cause his lags so bad the server is taking all of its time responding to him"

    well that makes no sense, just cause his packets have a latency of 400 rather than 100, shouldnt make much difference to the server. If anything it should just increase the load on the predictor on the client computer.

    others blame it on packet loss, and the server having to resend packets. I could understand that in extreme cases, like a 600+ ping where there might be some packet loss. But latency does not = packet loss.
  5. crotchfruit

    crotchfruit Guest

    Client-side prediction can affect the server. One example is client-side hit detection. This is in such games as SoF2, Call of Duty, AvP2, etc.

    Let's say you have three players:

    P1, P2 = LPB (50ms)
    P3 = HPB (500ms)

    P1 and P2 have 1 health bar left. P3 shoots and hits P1 on his screen. 100ms later, P1 shoots and hits P2 on his screen. The server registers this and P2 dies. 400ms later the server registers that P3 actually killed P1 500ms ago, before P1 killed P2. oh noes!!!~~1

    One solution, if P3 has a relatively low ping for a HPB (like 300ms), is to raise the ping for the other players. This makes it is less likely that an event from P3's client prediction will have a time anomoly effect. For example, if the server raises everyone to 300ms, then all incoming events will happen in perfect chronological order.

    The server needs to balance keeping pings low with reducing the chance for time-anomolies (by slowing down other players)...
  6. plat

    plat New Member

    Nov 2, 2003
    Likes Received:
    my advice is to not fight it, people are morons and they will believe crap like that. i used to fight with people over it and i just gave up. its not worth my time trying to explain it to them.

    on the packet loss issue, all latency sensitive games use the UDP protocol. it has no error/loss correction. a lost packet is a lost packet , it does not get resent since that part of the game has already pasted(why would you want to resend it?)

    the only time a laggy person on a server effects you is if your trying to kill them. they will be warping all over the place and its pretty impossible to hit them.
  7. Dark-Hawk

    Dark-Hawk New Member

    Nov 28, 2003
    Likes Received:
    Highger the ping the slower the game is going to run for the person, and in the long run it can slow it down for the others, or just make the game suck because the person is going to be reacting slower than the others (that is if it's a team game). A ping rate just means how fast you're receiving data.
  8. ds3

    ds3 Guest

    thank you very much for the technical answer. But is this something you know for sure or just a theory?

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