"Polyamory" a.k.a. pseudo-intellectual solipsitic holier-than-thou liberal elitism

Discussion in 'Vaginarium' started by JohnJohnJohnson, Sep 13, 2009.

  1. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    Might as well make a separate thread about this.

    Here are a couple of questions/critiques thus far. Some of these posts are less inquisitive, per se, than they are aggressive. But I'll field 'em anyway, hopefully with a thick skin. (That said, I hope people are also willing to catch them as they pitch them.)

    In that spirit, I'll write up responses to each of the following quotations, in subsequent posts.

     
  2. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    Hi Deborah,

    Thanks for the respectful inquiry. :h5:

    With a few exceptions, Emily and I have no rules or impositions on either person's behavior.

    But we may not be immune to jealousy or insecurity.

    I don't prefer to speak for Emily on this; but I, for one, am capable of both jealousy and insecurity.

    If Emily loved someone more than she loved me, that means she would be spending much less time with me than she currently does. Yes, I would find that painful.

    In addition to the pain of loss, I might also feel insecure. Insecure about my value as a man, in comparison to the other guy. Given that Emily, in the hypothetical you propose, would prefer to spend most of her time with him over me.

    But I don't think monogamy is a solution to this problem. I'm not being clinical; I'm following my heart. If I knew Emily would be happier with some other guy, then I would not FEEL good if she chose to stay with me simply to uphold our monogamous contract. Nor would I feel secure in my value. In a slightly different hypothetical, let's say Emily were to fall in love with a guy more than she loves me BUT let's say she and I were monogamous. In that case she would stay with me even though she would be happier with another guy. Knowing that, I could never feel good about our relationship or particularly secure in my value.

    So the answer is mixed. Yes, I am capable of feeling insecure and jealous. But no, I don't think monogamy would make me feel any less insecure or jealous. If anything, polyamory makes me feel less insecure because I know that Emily is with me INSOFAR AS and NO MORE THAN and TO THE EXTENT THAT she actually wants to be with me. That is the greatest security of all.

    One part of your question is pragmatic. What would I do, if Emily were more in love with someone else than she is with me?

    Well, I would have certain unfulfilled romantic and sexual desires, given the decrease in time spent together with Emily, who currently fulfills those desires. I would take care of them with somebody else. Perhaps Emily and I would, eventually, grow completely apart. Perhaps not.

    Once again, I'm not being clinical; I'm just acting in my own self-interest. I don't see monogamy as an effective precaution against my desires going unfulfilled. True: if we were monogamous, Emily would stay around and provide me with sex and romance to the best of her ability even if she really wanted to be doing that for another guy (or girl, or whatever). But then I would not find that fulfilling at all. Quite the contrary: if my Designated Sex Provider is staying with me SOLELY because she has agreed to do so, I am not going to find the sex or romance fulfilling in the slightest. That is not what I want. That's not good for me.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2009
  3. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    "Youth and naiveté" aside...

    "Everything" is not spread thin.

    Time may be spread thin. But love is not.

    "Love is time spent with someone and time spent thinking of someone," you might say.

    I disagree. I have a certain feeling when I'm with Emily and she has a certain feeling when she is with me and that is love.

    When she and I are together it is because we are thinking about each other and want to see each other, and that is my love.

    The fact that I spend some time apart from her does not negate that feeling.

    (As it stands, we are together pretty much 100% of the time :mamoru: That has changed in the past, and may change again.)
     
  4. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    Wolf,

    In this instance the distance between us is too great for me to answer your questions or even argue against your commentary.

    The fundamental barrier to communication between you and me is that our definitions of love are completely different.

    As you've said in previous posts, love is about restriction.

    To me, love is about many things, but it is quite the opposite of restriction.

    Not sure there's more to discuss; if I had your definition of love I would behave differently than I do; but I have my definition.
     
  5. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    Jane has long considered herself pansexual. She has had a couple of long-term monogamous boyfriends in the past.

    Yes. This is my first non-closed relationship where I actually felt love.

    I could - theoretically - go back to a monogamous relationship some day, if the person I love the most of all, will only be with me on the condition of monogamy. That would be an unfortunate sacrifice.

    Emily and I have both agreed that if it came to it - if what we have with each other were endangered by the fact that we are not closed - then we would close the relationship.

    Again, that would be a sacrifice and hopefully never happens.

    As for when we became polyamorous, the way it actually happened is that we just... never... became monogamous. We never closed the relationship and we never questioned "what it was."

    It was what it was.

    AS for the marriage - to us the marriage is a celebration. A celebration, specifically, of the Illusion of Eternity. The Illusion of Eternity is that feeling - that feeling there is no way what you're feeling for someone could ever end - that feeling that it could not possibly end - in spite of the rational knowledge that most people who allegedly "fall in love," later break up.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2009
  6. timberwolf

    timberwolf New Member

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    Wrong quotes... but thank you for answering. :)
     
  7. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    oh that was you? :o editing
     
  8. Deborah

    Deborah Seeing is believing, but I don't want to know.

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    Your responses in this thread makes complete sense. The truth is there are so many people out there for us to fall in love and have sex with. Monogamy in my opinion is simply about committing to one person in order to get your needs met and prevent heartbreaks, hurting ego...I think it is all about compromising, one might be happier and more excited with more than one partner but the whole drama that can come with it is simply not worth it for many people(I know captain obvious again:p). Anyways, I think it's really great that you two can do poly and enjoy that lifestyle, but it is certainly not possible for every one.
     
  9. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    I agree those are the reasons for which people are monogamous.

    For me, monogamy would not prevent heartbreaks or hurting ego any better than polyamory.

    In fact, the opposite is true, as explained in my original response to your question. :)

    Yeah.

    Also, there are other advantages, apart from / in addition to excitement.

    Agreed.
     
  10. Deborah

    Deborah Seeing is believing, but I don't want to know.

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    well yeah, but you still have similarities with monogamists, the need to feel you are the best/most important. You can see your partner enjoying another guy but as long as she enjoys you even more.

    definitely...Although there are other advantages to monogamy too. I think monogamous people can be more focused and probably provide a better situation for raising kids. However, I am not sure about it since polygamy haven't been practiced as much as monogamy as far as I know.
     
  11. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    Something like that.

    Maybe so. By the way, "polygamy" means multiple wives, specifically.

    "Polyamory," is the umbrella term people use for any non-monogamous relationship.
     
  12. timberwolf

    timberwolf New Member

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    pansexual???

    Have to admit...never heard of polyamory before your thread... always referred to it as 'open relationships'. Now pansexual...

    I guess if I was single and I met someone who I fell for and she insisted on having a polyamorous relationship, I guess would consider it. At the very least, she's a 'friend with benefits', right? Maybe learn to live that lifestyle or at least until I do meet someone who I found even more desireable and wanted a monogamous relationship.
     
  13. Viper

    Viper OT Supporter

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    You know, like "Peter Pan."

    it's the art of hitting each other in the genitalia with a pan and then watching each other fly.
     
  14. timberwolf

    timberwolf New Member

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    So she considered herself pansexual...but have actually never been with a woman, is that right? Though I understand that fact is irrelevant. Was she attracted to women at one time or another or was this an intellectual conclusion she determined she should be/ is?
     
  15. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    Yeah... We are really, really, really liberal. At least, when it comes to social stuff. Or maybe the world is just puritanical :coolugh:

    But it might be a sacrifice?

    Feeling strongly for you would be equivalent to wanting monogamy.
     
  16. JaneJaneJohnson

    JaneJaneJohnson New Member

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    Hi timberwolf!

    I've been attracted to all sorts of "types" - butch females, butch males, femme females (and very rarely femme males). I started calling myself pansexual after I developed a crush on a femme who was born with male genitalia, but self-identified as female, was pre-op, but fully intended to go the whole way with the hormone treatments, the operation, etc. I realized, "hey, this does NOT fit into the bi-sexual binary. Whoddathunkit?". I decided that, ultimately, I don't think I'm attracted to the bits and pieces that are hanging between a person's legs - I'm attracted to the person themselves, and their particular presentation.

    In terms of application - I actually find myself *hooking up* with far more men than women. I'm very shy about approaching women, unless I'm plastered. That awkwardness is one-hundred times worse when I'm in drag as my alter-ego "Al". I've heard the same applies to lots of straight guys too, though, so I'm not too worried :p

    That said, I HAVE hit on women and been favorably received. JJJ has occasionally been a witness to it, and he is usually, um, enthusiastic.

    I have this secret little dream where I find a girlfriend to play with, that is also attracted to JJJ. How perfect that would be :)
     
  17. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    I'm straight
     
  18. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    Small correction to the polygamy thing. It means multiple spouses. (Wives OR husbands.)

    Polygyny and polyandry are multiple wives and multiple husbands respectively.
     
  19. timberwolf

    timberwolf New Member

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    Or its abit of both.

    Its difficult to consider a restriction a sacrifice... lets just say, the sacrifice is in my initial discomfort.

    Possibly. Or maybe I would be clinging to my polyamorous status. Remember just projecting here. Never been in such a relationship though did consider it with a previous gf. But in this case... I was referring to meeting a woman who wanted a monogamous relationship.
     
  20. timberwolf

    timberwolf New Member

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    Thank you for elucidating.


    This is a good question for both of them.
     
  21. JaneJaneJohnson

    JaneJaneJohnson New Member

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    I have experienced jealousy twice in my life. Both times were with JJJ.

    The first time was when we were long-distance; I was at college, he was working. He, at the time, had been hooking up with his ex and very good friend, Lila. That was fine - I had no problem thinking of them kissing, doing oral, sleeping in the same bed, whatever. BUT one night I became totally convinced that he was having intercourse with her, and NOT telling me about it. I was utterly strung out, and I think I cried, sent him an angst-ridden e-mail and left him a rather distressed voice mail message. Not happy times. It turned out that he didn't. I was relieved, and a bit ashamed of myself. Since then we've established a rough rule that we'll TELL each other (if we can) if/when we're going to have sex with someone else. We've discovered through moments like that one that our imaginations are much more treacherous than simply knowing the truth.

    The second moment of jealousy: Lila and I were both messing around with each other and with JJJ one night. Still fairly early on in our relationship. We both went down on him. I had often heard about Lila's, um, oral prowess - I think I had heard "best blowjob ever" at some point very early on in our relationship - so I was watching very carefully. JJJ seemed VERY into it. Objectively, I wouldn't say more or less into it than when I'm doing it, but my ego was certainly imagining things. I began to feel very insecure. I talked to him about it, he reassured me very well, and the episode was over in about, oh, 24 hours.
     
  22. JaneJaneJohnson

    JaneJaneJohnson New Member

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    Dammit!!!!
     
  23. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    I've had three gay dreams in my life. But I've also had dreams in which I had sex with family members. I'm not attracted to family members, either. :hsugh: Pretty much I've had sex with everyone I've known who was female in my life, in my dreams. :hs: And then one guy went down on me in a dream, and one guy did this weird thing that you probably don't want to know about involving two dicks, and the most recent one was two or three years ago about some abstract male figure going down on me (which I posted about in the FS forum).

    Recent development:

    I might be attracted to a chick with a dick, in spite of the dick. I only discovered this recently though, on Off Topic of all things, because somebody posted an NWS of an EXTREMELY HOT girl... and then voila she has a cock............ :confused::confused::confused: You probably don't want to see it but I should show you the pic. You will see how confusing it is.

    Anyways, the short answer is yes, I'm sure of exactly what I like and don't like, minus that GORGEOUS CHICK someone posted... who happens to havea dick. Apart from that exception (as of, like 24 hours ago), which I'm still trying to wrap my mind around, I've never been attracted to someone who identified in any way as a dude.
     
  24. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    that is a good question. don't know for sure yet. children are something i just have completely blocked out of my head not merely in this regard but in all regards. children? :eek3:!

    if/when i come to the bridge of wanting children i will cross it then.
     
  25. RougeOgre

    RougeOgre FS Librarian and MOD

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    :bigthumb: I have to agree with Dee. Some people won't venture into FS to learn about this subject, so thank you for your clear explaination. :h5:
     

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