GUN Politics, where do you stand?

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by [DWI], Nov 30, 2006.

  1. [DWI]

    [DWI] Master of Nothing

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    Ok so I have better things to do, so I am putting them off and this thought crossed my mind. It seems most pro-gun people are thought of a ignorant republican voting hicks? So where dose this group of pro-gun folks stand on various issues?

    I'm a registered Inpenedent, because I do not want to get attatched to one party and vote blindly for that party.

    Gun Control: I am all for keeping guns out of the hand of people who shouldn't have them, felons and the like. I believe that we have more than enough gun laws on the books and no new ones are needed anytime soon at least until we enforce the ones we have now. Most gun crimes and especially the ones that make the headlines were already done by someone or somewhere that having a gun was illegal, the laws did nothing to help that. I support the idea that maybe it is time to try gun education. As for the limits on the types of guns we can buy I personally have no need for an FA, but I see no reason why I cannot buy one there are enough ways to make guns FA that if you want one and have a brain you will have one.

    Immigration: I haven't come to a strong opinion on this at least for illegal immigration. While it is illegal and a plan needs to be put into action, I doubt a fence is going to work at least as a whole policy. I know that as much as some of our agriculture depends on them we would have serious trouble at least initially if there were no more illegals.

    Gay Marriage: I'm I bit of a radical here, but I do know its unlikely to happen. I think the government should just strike the word marriage from all legal documents, replace it with a civil union. That drops the religious aspect of it from the governement aspect. Let gays and straights get the civil unions and all the legal rights and protections. Then let each church decide who can and cannot get married in the religious sence of the word.

    I'm sure there are other pressing issues in politics, but I just wanted to see where the rest of the pro-gun crowd stands on the issues.
     
  2. Y2kAccord

    Y2kAccord Everything happens for reasons I just dont know

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    If any political affiliation I am not really one, but last time I voted it was republican. See above in bold
     
  3. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    I'm a libertarian. I don't believe criminals obey laws and want to get rid of existing gun control laws as they infringe on the 2nd amendment needlessly. I support no publicly funded education including firearms. As far as immigration I don't care. End welfare and other socially funded programs and let anyone who wants to come and earn a living by contributing to society do so. You've got the marriage thing right to me, government shouldn't be involved with anything religious. Unless that changes the only fair thing to do is allow any marriage between consenting adults of any gender (or number).

    The thing that bothers me most about politics is people seem to think legislation fixed problems. "There 'ought to be a law" thinking is very well intentioned but it usually just wastes money and does nothing. I want as small of a government as possible so I can keep most of my money, live my life with as little government intrusion as possible, and have my money spent efficiently by the groups I give it to.

    I vote on no singular issue, including gun control. I don't feel like either major political party represents me as a socially liberal and financially conservative person. "Left-wing politicians take away your liberty in the name of children and of fighting poverty, while right-wing politicians do it in the name of family values and fighting drugs. Either way, government gets bigger and you become less free." -- Harry Browne
     
  4. SS109

    SS109 3100 FPS OT Supporter

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    Libertarian-Republican.

    I want a strong defense I oppose the drug war and much of the war on terror. I would also like the US to stop supporting hopeless cases like Israel and more isolationist.
     
  5. Gimik

    Gimik New Member

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    Lib here (though I don't really follow politics). I think people should be able to do anything they want as long as it does not interfere with the rights of anyone else.

    Drugs? If you want to throw your life away using drugs (or just use them casually for that matter) what the hell do I care? Just don't drive while under the influence or make yourself a problem to anyone else. If you do, you should be punished.

    Prostitution. Same as anything else. If a guy (or gal) wants to pay another person for some sexual favor, who cares? People do it all the time anyway, it just usually isn't so straight-forward. Because people could get sick? People are having sex for free all the time and getting sick from it. Plus all kinds of other things that people can do to hurt themselves are legal.

    Legalize drugs/prostition so that you can tax it. Same as tabacco and alcohol.

    Marriage? Why does the govt. have ANY say in what a marriage is? This should not even be a political issue.

    Guns? Everyone should be able to own a gun if they want. Full auto, bolt action, semi-auto, it shouldn't matter -- and for all the normal reasons (protection from our own govt being one of them). If you missuse a weapon there should be dire consequences, especially in the case of a violent crime.

    Stop making new laws. Enforce the laws we have already. Hell, we should get rid of most of them.
     
  6. Pump Scout

    Pump Scout New Member

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    What he said. I've tossed around the idea of running for a non-political office locally (Register of Deeds), and would run as a Libertarian. Liberal on gay rights/marraige, certain drug issues (or at least, the punishment and LE pursuit of same), and abortion. Conservative on defense, gun rights, and finances.

    Neither party has the complete answer to the nation's problems, and with some issues, neither party has much of any answer. Yet the sheeple that make up the majority of the population keep voting in career politicians who don't even know what their constituancies really want. Case in point - we here in the fine state of Wisconsin have a Congressman who has been in Washington now for some 927 years. OK, that's not quite accurate. He's been there since 1969. That's longer than I've been alive. Does he really know Wisconsin anymore? No, but he keeps getting put back there because he "knows Washington" and "can get things done for us". Riiiiight. Poly-sci in college, realtor breifly, then into politics - state for 6 years, federal since then.

    Oops, I've seguay'd into a rant about term limits. Sorry. :p
     
  7. [DWI]

    [DWI] Master of Nothing

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    On and don't get me started on the tax codes and the IRS
     
  8. TL1000RSquid

    TL1000RSquid ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    :werd: pretty much everything he said, I'm reg'd as independent.
    I think we need to be alot tougher on immigration, I've no problem with people who come legally but we don't even know who's coming across our borders right now.

    Taxes I think they need to go but that would be pretty much impossible, alot of BS programs funded by our tax money need to be cut atleast so we can lower taxes. We don't need to be wasting our money supporting people who live there lives on welfare. We don't need to be sending our money off to other countries who don't like us. We not only don't need to give money to the U.N. we need to kickem out of the country.
     
  9. striker754

    striker754 Chillin

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    Term limits on Congress is really the win in this country.

    anyways, well gun control, ya know. we are in the wmd forum. sure keep the brady bullshit or whatever to keep people happy but fix it to not deny people wrongly.

    immigration? open the border for shooting. seriously. america is a sovereign state. she should be able to protect her borders with any means possible. immigrants are needed to do the shit jobs that no one wants to do. we need legal ones. you MUST learn fucking english. english should be the national language. you will call yourself an American. if you want to proclaim other bullshit you can go right back to the shithole you came from. ya free speech blah blah, recognize what America is giving to you and respect that. NO services for illegals. I dont care if you are dying in front of the ER. FUCK NO.

    marriage is not a religious issue, nor is it a right. you dont have a right to be married. personally I dont care what you do with your life, but stop bitching about equal rights, because its not a right. just like welfare is not a right. i dont bitch about not getting welfare.
     
  10. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    You know I've never understood that one. People are too dumb to quit electing a bad person but they'll be smart enough to pick the good new one?

    Actually I'd disagree, marriage as the state recognized union of people that provides them with benefits from the state and other advantages should either be available to all people or none. There is no reason heterosexuals only should be able to take advantage of the numerous advantages of marriage.
     
  11. PanzerAce

    PanzerAce Active Member

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    Libertarian here. Pro 2A, I dont give a fuck about gay marrige (I think that the gov doesnt even have the legal right to acknoledge marrige, only civil unions, but that is for On Topic), pro legalization/taxation of some drugs.

    On abortion, I want nothing to do with that issue.
     
  12. striker754

    striker754 Chillin

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    term limits bring change. get someone other than ted kennedy in the senate for some new ideas instead of his same old shit. Im sorry if you have trouble understanding that. I mean why would we have term limits on the President? You know why Congress has no term limits, because it takes Congress for something like that to pass;)

    welfare is a state provided benefit that only some can have. Why don't I get welfare?
     
  13. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    And what happens when you have a good politician? It seems like the same kind of crappy rule as zero tolerance laws. How does it impact lame ducks, what motivation do they have to stay true? We have term limits, they're called elections. Its an attempt to treat a symptom but not the real problem.

    I hate to even talk about welfare because I think its a broken system that needs to be gotten rid of anyway. However I don't believe anyone has said you can't receive welfare based on your sexuality, a status people usually include with race, religion, etc and certainly not with income. If you wanted to do the right thing you'd fight to end welfare, and not fight to keep a couple of people from enjoying the same legal benefits as hetero couples have. To do otherwise is to suggest something similar to not allowing homosexuals to use public roads.
     
  14. Vermincelli

    Vermincelli Banned

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    I am no party or no term. I am strongly conservative but I have voted for libertarians, independants, democrats and republicans based on thier stands.

    I am pro gun, pro 2nd amendment, pro law enforcement, pro military. I have worked as an LEO and in Iraq and can tell you first hand that there are evil people in the world and they have one of two goals on your mind, taking your stuff and killing you and all that you love. There is no talking to them, there is no such thing as comprimising with them, there is no "understanding" them. We didn't create them, they created themselves based on their choices/religion and we just happen to be the biggest bullseye out there. You can either make them fear you so they don't bother you and yours or you can roll over in an attempt to appease them which does nothing more than make you feel good and give them a prime target for an ass fucking. I prefer to be the one giving it than the one receiving it. In simple terms, you can live your lives sheltered and hoping for puppydogs and fields of flowers and love BUT you have to also have people like me that are willing and able to go out and create a hell on earth to our enemies so brutal and nasty that they won't want to ruin your life and your dream.

    I think there is nothing wrong with gays getting married but I am against small minority fanatics dictating laws and regulations at the same time for the majority (if a state's population decides to vote for a state ban, then the public has spoken) The reason for the backlash against gay marriage isn't because people don't want it, but because a small group of liberal judges in Mass. decided to make laws and tell the people of Mass that they were wrong. THEN those state judges tried to make their ruling effect other states. Fuck that. They started this mess. Had they just kept their goddamn liberal socialist bullshit to themselves and did their jobs there probably would be gay marriage allowed by now.

    I am very anti illegal alien as it's an invasion of our country. I am however very pro LEGAL immigration. If 1 million hard working people can take the time and make the effort to come here through the proper channels (learn the language, pass a medical and criminal screening) then the others can do the same and become US citizens. I am also for rounding up and deporting those who are here illegally and for the removal of the anchor baby law. No safe haven bullshit. We have a government now (both parties) who want slave labor. They don't give a shit that the borders are wide open with guns, gangs, terrorists and drugs marching over. We have mexican military shooting at our border patrol almost daily and even have mexican military vehicles crossing the border helping the cartels. It's time we start shooting back.

    I am for a very strong defense and a "you smack me or even think about smacking me, I will kill you and your family. You work with me as friends and I will be your best friend" policy against agressors. We don't want to be the world's police, but unfortunately we have been thrust into that position by the other countries not willing to do what it takes. If we can't do what's right and do it all out, then we need leadership with balls and who don't care how they are viewed by a bunch of PC asshats who care more about how they feel and how others perceive them.

    I am for abortions but only when it's for medical/rape reasons, 98% of abortions now are for lifestyle reasons. If you don't want kids, then use protection or say no. As long as there's no consequences, there is no incentive to grow up, mature and be a good person.

    I am against welfare for more than 2 years unless you have a proven medical reason. I want people who go on welfare to be required to have mandatory sterlization.

    I am for personal responsibility. It is your responsibility to live a good honest life, take care of yourself and your family and be mature enough to deal with the consequences of your actions and learn from your mistakes.

    I am against the ACLU. When they sit there touting how they are for individual rights yet refuse to back up the 2nd amendment, they are no longer for individual rights but a personal agenda.

    Lastly, I am against the legalization of drugs. I have had to scrape what was left of a baby from a windshield, watch people's brains ooze out of what was their skull because they thought that the drugs or alcohol they took wouldn't effect them. When you legalize something, then you have alot of retards out there nowadays who will NOT keep it in their own home. They will go to work or get behind the wheel thinking they are the the only person in the world who won't be effected by what they ingested and then go out and kill some innocent person who didn't deserve to die. You can sit here and give me the typical pro pothead bullshit rhetoric but unlike you, I have dealt with waaaaaay too many idiots who were high or drunk and I have seen far too much death and mutiliation caused by them.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2006
  15. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    Do you support the NRA or GOA?
     
  16. 90free400e

    90free400e New Member

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    I disagree with the gay marriage stance, as stated above, "married" couples are allowed many benefits. I don't support letting gays get married but I do agree with giving them the rights that married couples get. Call me old fashioned but I think marriage should be reserved for a man and a woman

    Adam and Eve
    Not Adam and Steve
     
  17. Vermincelli

    Vermincelli Banned

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    GET OFF MY LAWN!
    I'm Vermincelli and I support this message.



    Paid for by the committee to elect Vermincelli as grand poobah wizard of the Illuminati.
     
  18. Vermincelli

    Vermincelli Banned

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    Yes because both of them are specifically trying to support a specific amendment, not all of them (unless it's a situation that involves another one in secondary fashion) Unlike the ACLU which claims to support all of them yet picks and chooses it's battles depending on the political, racial and socio-economic situations.
     
  19. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    See thats where I'm lost though, ACLU takes no action for or against the 2nd amendment. The NRA takes no action on the 1st amendment. Whats the difference?

    Ideally I'd like to see the ACLU support the second but as it stand they are smaller and more effective than the NRA while protecting an even larger set of rights. I think thats pretty nifty and as long as they won't work against me on the 2nd amendment, I will support them. The GOA I won't even support because of christian material they've published in the past that is certainly not freedom friendly outside of firearms. Very fundamentalist stuff at times.
     
  20. Vermincelli

    Vermincelli Banned

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    Simple, the NRA isn't there to protect the 1st unless it comes up as a secondary issue to a 2nd amendment abuse. The ACLU on the other hand was created and has stated they are there to protect all rights yet has stated publicly that they don't see the 2nd amendment as an individual right. They HAVE taken a stand, they won't support it. Now if the ACLU were to tomorrow say we will only support 1st or 4th amendment situations THEN they would be similar to the NRA.

    By the ACLU refusing to support the 2nd amendment while supporting all others they are in fact working against you.
     
  21. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    How? I mean its a catchy thing to say I guess, but realistically tell me how having an organization that supports free speech but doesn't work for or against 2nd amendment rights harms me.

    I don't believe the ACLU has ever said they support the 2nd any more than the NRA has said they'll support the 1st.
    http://www.aclu.org/about/index.html
    The mission of the ACLU is to preserve all of these protections and guarantees:
    Your First Amendment rights-freedom of speech, association and assembly. Freedom of the press, and freedom of religion supported by the strict separation of church and state.

    Your right to equal protection under the law - equal treatment regardless of race, sex, religion or national origin.

    Your right to due process - fair treatment by the government whenever the loss of your liberty or property is at stake.

    Your right to privacy - freedom from unwarranted government intrusion into your personal and private affairs.

    ----------
    No where in that list do I see all freedoms. In fact on their page they clearly lay out their stance on the 2nd amendment.
     
  22. Alphaeus

    Alphaeus New Member

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    Abortion/contraception: 1st trimester only at the latest. If you don't want a baby, that's fine, but don't wait for it to be half-grown before you kill it. Do what it takes to educate people on safe sex. This abstinence only edu is bullshit, because everyone knows some kids are gonna get horny. Might as well teach them to do it right.

    Gay Marriage: Why make it so only straight people have to go through marriage? Thats not fair. If a married couple wants to break up, they have to go through hell and back to do it. If gay people want to break up, they can just leave and take their own shit. Minus well make them suffer the same as everyone else. But seriously, legislating religious values is bullshit.

    Security: Warrantless wire-tapping is bullshit. It can't be that hard to get one if it's really justified. The gov't has no right to monitor me or anyone else arbitrarily. Get rid of everyone at the TSA. Everyone knows who the likely bombers are, and they AREN'T the 90 year old grandmothers. Do your fucking jobs and stop trying to be P.C.

    Borders: Sure people don't want our borders to be as open as they are now, and yes the US has every right to do what it wants at the border. But people don't realize the importance of Mexican labor to the economies of the Southwest. Put up a fuckin wall, but let people in who just want to work and aren't criminals or drug fiends. But if you're going to let them work here, you MUST make them pay taxes. There shouldn't be such thing as a free ride.

    Guns Any and all should be ok. Trained current and former servicemen and women should be able to keep and maintain the more "heavy duty" stuff such as rockets and other explosives. We do need an effective defense against government after all. BUT, if misuse of weapons and murders/assaults/robberies etc are committed with them, there should be extremely stiff penalties. However, non-violent felons like white-collar corporate criminals shouldn't have their rights taken away after they pay their debt to society. Also, your property is your castle, but that doesn't give you the right to shoot people who are cutting across your yard. If they try to harm you or take your shit, however, thats a risk they run knowing you might possibly be armed. Lethal self defense should be unquestioned. If someone tries to hurt you, questions can be asked AFTER someone cleans up the mess on the sidewalk.

    I just got out of 2 poli sci classes in a row, and I'm sick of politics for now, so i don't feel like typing any more.
     
  23. Vermincelli

    Vermincelli Banned

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    When any of the above issues come forward when dealing with a 2nd amendment issue, the ACLU has taken a "not going to get involved" stance. They claim that the other amendments should not be regulated or restricted yet they claim that guns should be.

    Let's say your right to privacy is being abused by a local or state government but it has to do with say your gun registration information being used. You aren't going to see the ACLU step in. You can call the ACLU if your due process is being abused but you better pray that the due process doesn't involve firearms because you aren't going to get a callback.

    Don't get me wrong, the ACLU when it was first created was a noble idea and a much needed group but over the years it's become politicised and corrupt.
     
  24. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2006_11_12-2006_11_18.shtml#1163789232
    ACLU Sues Library for Allegedly Blocking Access to Second Amendment Foundation Site (among others). The the ACLU's Complaint claims that the libraries are using filters to block certain material, and refusing to manually unblock the material on the user's request

    I just think in the end you're shooting yourself in the foot. We've established that they do no harm at worst, at best they are the only supporters for other rights. But thats my stance because if I only supported people who agreed with me 100% i'd support no one.
     
  25. Alphaeus

    Alphaeus New Member

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    "separation of church and state" is no longer so strict. Since 1995 in Rosenberger v. University of Virginia the free exercise clause has essentially been tied to free speech clause in that the government and all its entities must remain strictly content- and religion-neutral. This new neutrality is a better interpretation of the establishment clause, I think, than the "wall of separation" which was coined by Jefferson forever ago.

    Now, whether or not local and state governments have been or will actually abide by the Supreme Court's ruling is another story...
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2006

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