planning a comp build Qs when to buy, what to buy: SSDs, what socket mobo, blahdibla

Discussion in 'OT Technology' started by piratepenguin, Jun 15, 2008.

  1. piratepenguin

    piratepenguin New Member

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    SSDs
    Whenever I build my next comp in the next few weeks or months (and I might even wait until Christmas or after if important technology is improving and getting more affordable i.e. SSDs and Intel CPUs, and if I can hold it out with my current comp), I am not misinformed to think SSDs would be a great idea for my project files stuff and important OS configurations, am I? They can do "limited write cycles" the internet never lets me forget, but I can still expect one to last at least a year in very bad circumstances is good. Now Q: whenever the write cycles are gone, does that mean you can still read? Because that isn't bad at all.

    Does anybody (and I know there's SSD-heads around) record stats on their write cycles used and that jazz - are there programs to do this? I might be getting an SSD in the form of an Eee PC soon, and it would be just interesting.

    CPU/mobos
    Now CPUs/mobos. I would absolutely go with Intel for CPU, the question would be core 2 core quad or the n-whatever chips that are coming out in late 2008/2009. I would feel great to buy sooner if I knew all these chips fitted one socket and maybe in late 2009 I can get a very good more-modern Intel chip. Does one socket fit them all?

    WRT RAM, these Intel chips still do the dual chanel thing right? So the ideal RAM setup would be a pair of 2GB sticks or a pair of 1GB sticks?

    I remember dues told me a good plan for cooling (air) that doesn't mess the comp up with air. Blow everything OUT is a good setup, is that true? I don't really intend to overclock, btw.

    I don't think I'll fit any optical drives, screw that shit. Actually you're right I haven't thought that out. But since I'm gonna have a laptop with no optical drive, it would make sense anyhow to have a USB one hanging around. I never burn DVDs and I rarely burn CDs. There are USB optical drives for cheap and some even can burn DVDs. My question is would you expect there to be trouble if I needed to BOOT from a DVD, using this external USB drive? Also what is the speed difference - going over USB is CD and DVD slower - much slower?

    Networks. How is wireless N? Does anyone have an N network at home or are they not really at that point yet, what is the case?

    Any input, much appreciated :big grin:
     
  2. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    As it is, I think SSD is not ready for the desktop. It has some interesting uses in mobile applications where battery life and heat are major concerns. It also has use in the enterprise for speed (when you spend INSANE amounts of money on it). But for the desktop, I'm simply not seeing it as benefitial, yet.

    Write cycles are tough because manufacturers only provide a MTBF and the figure is relatively low, so it's difficult to really predict failure. SMART may help you with that.

    At the moment, LGA775 is the go-to-socket for Intel's desktop processors. If you want to run some extreme chips, or xeons, then you want LGA771.

    Yes, dual channel is still very much alive. I would recommend 4GB for any new system build above the "budget" category. And even then, ram is cheap so I've spec'd even budget builds with 4GB, lately.

    I remember that thread, and what he said was debunked, iirc. Theoretically you want equal pressure with a front>back and bottom>top movement. However, theory doesn't always translate well to practice. I have found that back>front and bottom>top gives me lower temps in my system -- which makes sense when you realize I put my systems backed up against the wall (just enough clearance for the cables in teh back) which creates a hotzone and a high-pressure zone. Using the rear as an intake lessens that pressurer burden. In the end, you need to experiment a bit. Generally you want to start with equal in/out pressure. If you have an odd-man-out fan, it's generally better to create positive internal pressure over a negative internal pressure -- so have more intake fans than exhaust fans.

    Most systems support usb boot devices. USB is definitely slower, but for the occasional use, it's fine. Certainly not unbearable. USB 2.0 has a maximum theoretical transfer rate of 480Mbit/sec which translates to 60MByte/sec. Keep in mind those are MAX values in THEORY. Generally you'd get much less. Personally, I'd say get a T61p and then you have a splendid desktop replacement.

    I have 802.11draftN. It's mostly hype. Range is a bit better, which wasn't an issue for me, anyway. I still find myself using a cat6 and gigabit switch for large planned data xfers. But for casual stuff, it's fine. I wouldn't jump to replace existing equipment with N stuff, unless you NEED it. Security is supposed to be better on N.

    you kinda jump around between desktop/laptop.... which is it going to be?

    If a desktop, don't bother with a USB optical drive. Spend $25 (less than the external) and get an internal one.
     
  3. piratepenguin

    piratepenguin New Member

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    Thank yooou P07r0457!
    Hmm. Is data on an SSD as corruptable as a mechanical drive? That's the main thing I wanna get away from, and for a few GB of work stuff I would pay for it and also be glad that unlike using a mechanical drive it will never get noisy nevermind using 2 mechanical drives for a RAID backup setup. I intend to buy off-site storage off rsync.net or such (any recommendations?).

    I haven't had any major corruptions in a long long time actually. But has the possibility of arriving home in 7 months and browsing arround some old stuff to see some of it is corrupt and maybe has been for a long time (major MAJOR problem) - that just needs to be eliminated. It's only happened me before with OLD drives I've put away I think, but it is so gay. Is this problem a non-issue with a modern mechanical drive?
    SMART seems useful to know, should learn some of it and watch that.
    Will nahelm be LGA775? That would be my mind made up.
    Deadly stuff.

    You can watch a DVD on an external DVD ROM yeah?
    It'll be both I rekon is the best thing for me. A cheap laptop (possibly an Eee PC, I have to meet one before I decide on that though) plus a very good desktop.

    I wouldn't be able to decide on a laptop if I was spending a lot of money - the thinkpads are real nice and would be my type of thing but, expensive. I'll be virtualising and compiling and I'll need lots of disk space and I think I'm just better off to do this at a desktop machine. I will never really need to do this stuff on-the-go, but a laptop will be handy for bus journeys and it would also be handy for whenever I'm around the house (or even not, via the internet i.e. slower) and I want to do something on my (far more powerful) desktop - I can do X11 tunnelling yoke and do my thing. Infact there's talk of setting up a wireless internet link on the bus route I'll be taking so I can just do everything on my desktop, from a cheapo laptop, all the way home :big grin:

    2 computers and connectivity is my friend. I will spend just a few hundred MAX on a cheapo laptop and maybe 800euro on a computer (think I can scrounge a monitor, will buy a keyboard and will probably buy a logitech MX Air but this will be in a few months so nothing is decided).

    Will have spare keyboard/mouse/monitor at home (original home) for connecting the cheapo laptop to, because I don't love small keyboards and screens and touchpads.

    T61p is still worth thinking about, but it would still be useful to have a computer for backup i.e. I think it'll be cheapo laptop + good desktop will be the way.
     
  4. Doomsday

    Doomsday XXX

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    nope.

    nehalem sockets:
    LGA1366 = enthusiasts/performance boards
    LGA1160 = mainstream/value boards
     
  5. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    Data corruption occurs in a few different ways. The most common is due to interuption in power, or system instability. This would affect both SSD and traditional magnetic storage systems. Another form of data corruption comes from the drive "going bad". In a traditional hard drive, that could be a magnetic issue, a bad bearing, a bad head, a bad controller, or physical damage to the platter. SSDs remove some of the mechanics, so you wouldn't get damage to a bearing, head, or platter -- because these parts are not present in a SSD. However, flash can go bad with effects similar to damaged platters or heads. Likewise, there is still a controller that may fail. Also consider that the MTBF quotes my manufacturers is much lower with SSD than with traditional hard drives -- so statistically, SSDs should fail more often.

    hard drives have gotten much more robust, imo. If you're really concerned about it, get a good discrete RAID controller and run 3+ SATA drives in RAID5. You'll get parity so your data is safe even in the event of drive failure. You also get a sizeable performance gain, as a nice side-benefit.

    Yep, any modern board/hdd/chipset should support it.

    No, nahelm marks a drastic shift in intel's approach to the x86 arch. Traditionally, the cpu is simply the cpu... And functions such as memory access were left up to the northbridge. That is why intel chipset selection is so critical to the overall performance of a system. Nahelm will be intel's first production processor that integrates the memory controller onto the same physical die as the cpu. This has the benefit of increased potential bandwidth, and will be the first opportunity we have for taking advantage of the true potential of DDR3. Consequently, the existing Socket T (LGA-775) simply cannot support the needs of nahelm. As a result, Intel is introducing Socket B (LGA-1366). There was a rumor of two other sockets, one being 1160, but Intel has not officially confirmed that, and no demo boards or chips have been sent out for that. Intel has begun circulating reference boards and chips for the 1366. Personally, I think AMD made a huge mistake dividing their desktop offerings into 754 and 939... and Intel would be well-advised to avoid a similar fiasco.

    Yes you can watch a dvd on an external dvd-rom. I still recommend against it. The eeepc is a piece of shit, really. You're better served with a $500-600 laptop and a good desktop. Both would have internal optical drives.

    Then that really confirms, in my mind, the need of a true laptop. The thinkpad is the most robust for daily use and travel... but I understand the issue of cost. You can get them for around $900. But if you want to go cheaper, then search your local big-box stores for a deal on a gateway or hp notebook. You should easily find something in the $499-599 range that will be a good notebook for your needs.

    It sounds like you have a budget of approximately $1000 euro? If so, that gives you about $1500 US dollars. I would take $500 of that for a laptop, and use the $1000 for a desktop. If you could scrounge up another $150 euro, that'd really help make a supurb desktop.

    Personally, I think you're best served by one good monitor, and use a KVM. I don't even use a KVM. I only use my laptop at my desk long enough to sync some files. Otherwise, I use my desktop workstation when I'm here.

    Then by all means look at the gateway/hp and build a solid desktop.
     
  6. piratepenguin

    piratepenguin New Member

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    Seems like a good plan! Must get into this RAID crap, I've tried before to understand but it goes over my head. That type of reliability is quitee worth it. I was hoping SSDs would be an easy way to get away without that corruption data corruption, guess there's a lot more to it in being electronic. Probably shouldn't put my trust in it right now then.
    I see, this stuff will probably be outside my budget (as if I will be needing it too quickly) until well into next year, building over the summer will probably be the way to go so, with socket T.
    The laptop, yeah after looking at the Eee PC for a while and then looking around, I noticed for not much more you can get a laptop much more decent to the Eee, but (just to help me make a better decision) what CPU would you go for - AMD Turion or Celeron M? When it comes to performance Atom wouldn't really compete with these would it? (it being so friggin small and all)
    I will do the same. I don't need a KVM because I'm talking about 2 "homes" college and here. When I'm here and my desktop is in college I'd need to do a VNC-type thing (I need to look at No Machine's tech for speeding up X11) . . . Which wouldn't be very quick but could be handy. And I could do that hooked up to a spare monitor/kb/mouse here. I won't be using the laptop when I'm down in college really except when I'm leaving the house.
    Will need to do. Thanks again.
     
  7. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    i would take an intel core2duo over a turion, but i'd probably take a turion over a celeron.
     

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