MIL Pat Tillman's parents angry at Army brass

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by Accord, May 23, 2005.

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  1. Accord

    Accord New Member

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    I realize that they're angry about what happened and how the Army initially did not initially tell them he died in a friendly fire incident, but from what they're saying it's as if they don't want their son to be recognized as a national hero. He's still a hero regardless of if it was a friendly fire incident or not.
     
  2. Soren

    Soren OT Supporter

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    Okay.

    Just tell me: do you think the government should lie about military operations for propoganda and/or morale-boosting purposes.
     
  3. Killgunner

    Killgunner OT Supporter

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    I think that lie is fine. Why not lie when it helps a country's morale? They are being pricks about it.
     
  4. Nixstress

    Nixstress Look at me! I am edgy and stabby! OT Supporter

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    Lying is wrong, end of story.
     
  5. Nixstress

    Nixstress Look at me! I am edgy and stabby! OT Supporter

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    :werd:

    It's too bad the lie will taint this.
     
  6. Accord

    Accord New Member

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    News flash: it's been happening for the past 200+ years. Not saying it's good -- it's not, and any time the government covers things up is problematic. But everyone jumping on the Bush administration for this, as if it's unprecedented in the history of the United States, needs to go back to History 101.
     
  7. ManinCamo

    ManinCamo I wear big boy pants.

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    there was a thread in the main forum about this, and I held the stance that it was an ok lie b/c it was helpful and benefitial.

    If I died in some stupid accident, I'd want my family to know that I went out giving the enemy hell and that it was honorable, not being shotdown by a friendly patriot missle
     
  8. Hud

    Hud Quit Cryin'

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    Seeing as how the death had already happened, why not try to make the best out of it. I'm sure if the family was given the choice, they too would of lied about it, but they weren't, so now they are pissed. According to your user title, life is too short to play fair, well the Army just wasn't playing fair on this one, so I would think you too would agree with their tactic.
     
  9. Pizza The Hutt

    Pizza The Hutt OT Supporter

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    The problem with this case is the fact that the government/military lied about this particular hero. If they lied about Tillman, that leaves the seeds of doubt for any future heroes that come from military combat. Propaganda has it's place in government/military, but when it is revealed as a lie, the people delivering messages lose credibility. It's just another story of the government lying to us. Each story produces an increased lack of trust, which certainly hurts the morale of the country.
     
  10. Pizza The Hutt

    Pizza The Hutt OT Supporter

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    I can guarantee you that Pat Tillman would be pissed at being used as a puppet of the government propaganda machine. He was the type of guy that would never want to be elevated above his fellow compatriots for his actions. He was selfless and a good man. His death was turned into a sham thanks to the government/military that he gave his life for. That is tragic.

    If you're okay with people lying about what you've done, then that's you. I personally would like my family to know the truth of my passing so that they can react and move on.
     
  11. Soren

    Soren OT Supporter

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    Maybe its the conservative/authoritarian slant of the people on this forum, but I find it discomforting that you people support simply making stuff up for the purpose of morale. I mean, how far do you want to take this? For example, let's say a certain country invades another country on the pretense of "weapons of mass destruction". The WMD are never found and some evidence is located which says that they never existed. Should this information be withheld for purposes of morale?

    And further, in our hypothetical little war, what if the occupying country's casualties are quite steep? Should full casualty information be released, or should it be withheld to maintain morale?

    The point is that, one way or another, leaders must get the support of the people in order to wage war (even if it's not a democracy). Is it ethical (especially in the case of the democracy) to lie about the events of war to maintain the morale of the civillians, which the leaders needed the support of in order to take military action in the first place?
     
  12. Soren

    Soren OT Supporter

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    Yes, objectively I agree with their tactic, and if I was in their shoes I would do the same thing (and much more devious things as well). But it's nearly impossible to look at this objectively. I mean, it's "logical" and "understandable" but it's not "right".. if being "right" even matters anymore.
     
  13. Accord

    Accord New Member

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    The government has made numerous lies during the war for the benefit of popular opinion and there's absolutely nothing wrong with doing it especially in unpopular conflicts. The Jessica Lynch incident is a perfect example, the government made her out to be the female version of Rambo going down fighting when in reality she never even fired one shot.

    If a white lie will improve the morale of an entire country, then it's worth it.
     
  14. Soren

    Soren OT Supporter

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    Okay, what about a gray lie?
     
  15. Pizza The Hutt

    Pizza The Hutt OT Supporter

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    Unfortunately, a white lie improves morale until the truth gets out. Then morale is lower than where it started because people can't trust their government or their military leaders. The apathy and overall acceptance of having corrupt liars running our country will be the reason for it's downfall in the not so distant future.

    I figured you military guys would be all about honor. Using soldiers as pawns to briefly improve morale is not an honorable way to run a country.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2005
  16. Pizza The Hutt

    Pizza The Hutt OT Supporter

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    The family claims they were lied to. The argument seems to be more about whether it's right to blow up our heros under false pretenses, and not about 26 days.
     
  17. C5Load

    C5Load OT Resident UCLA fanatic

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    Trolling is NOT allowed. We don't care what you think about our job, our president, our wars, etc. If you want to debate, go to on-topic. If you want to rant and flame, go to off-topic.
     
  18. NomaN

    NomaN Guest


    That is not trolling, just because you do not agree with what he said.
     
  19. Pizza The Hutt

    Pizza The Hutt OT Supporter

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    Where am I trolling? :ugh: I'm the one defending the honor of a fallen soldier. :ugh:
     
  20. Pizza The Hutt

    Pizza The Hutt OT Supporter

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    I have never been accused of trolling before. My comment wasn't meant to be trolling. You guys need to quit reading too much into comments.
     
  21. C5Load

    C5Load OT Resident UCLA fanatic

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    Trolling is NOT allowed. We don't care what you think about our job, our president, our wars, etc. If you want to debate, go to on-topic. If you want to rant and flame, go to off-topic.
     
  22. Pizza The Hutt

    Pizza The Hutt OT Supporter

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    I guarantee Pat Tillman would not approve of the government spreading a lie of his death. That goes against everything he stood for and everything they said about him during the mourning of his death. It's not honorable to want a false representation of yourself to be spread. That's the gist of my statement. I can't believe I'm being labeled as a troll. :ugh:
     
  23. NomaN

    NomaN Guest


    It is about reading comprehension. Read what Pat Tillman's father had said. He said the same thing Preston did. It is about the lie to the family not the 26 days.

    It is about Pat Tillman being killed, and the Army trying to spin it.

    Don't get pissed and accused Preston of trolling, just because you do not like the message.
     
  24. Pizza The Hutt

    Pizza The Hutt OT Supporter

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    My reply was to Accord's post stating that the government uses propaganda (Jessica Lynch). It is entirely correct for this thread for me to make that statement. Why don't you warn him for making that statement about our government using Jessica Lynch?
     
  25. NomaN

    NomaN Guest


    Why say anything until you have all of the facts.

    All the Army had to do is tell the family he was dead, they didnt need to hold press conferences and let anyone else know. Why release any information to the press about him? Do they do that for every soldier? Do they hold press conferences for every soldier?
     
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