Passive aggressive girls (and people in general)

Discussion in 'Vaginarium' started by Falconer, Nov 1, 2006.

  1. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    Looking back at my dating history, it seems like many of the women I've dated have been passive aggressive. I always recognized this type of behavior, but I didn't know it was called "passive aggressive" until just recently (when it was identified to me by this forum. Thanks!). I always referred to it as taking the opposite extreme approach, and tried, unsuccessfully, to explain why it was illogical behavior to my GFs, but now I have a name to go with it :bigthumb:

    (For those of you who might not be familiar with PA behavior, here are a few examples:

    Say your gf cooks for you, but you honestly don't like something, and so you tell her. Not insulting, not in a hostile manner, but when she asks "how is everything?" you reply with like "everything is good, honey, except I'm not too crazy about what you did with the rice (or whatever)." Alright, a normal person might have their feelings hurt a little, which is natural, but might reply with "alright, what don't you like about it? I won't make it that way next time." A passive agressive person would reply with "fine, I guess I'm never cooking anything for you again" (taking the opposite side to the extreme)

    Or, a smaller example, say she doesn't call you for a certain period of time in which you would normally have talked on the phone once or twice. A normal person would call you and be like "hey, we haven't talked in a while. Are you busy? I miss talking to you." A passive aggressive person would txt you with "wtf? why don't you ever call me?"

    Or, if you wanted to go to a party together, but you two couldn't decide where to go afterward, so she goes "fine, I don't want to go to the party at all." That is illogical because she wanted to go to the party in the first place. Why would you let something unrelated change something you want to do? A more logical reply might be "well then let's just come home after the party (because you wanted to go to the party in the first place)".
    )

    Alright, anyway, I've heard that psychologists have recently taken the term "passive aggressive" out of their lexicon or whatever as it doesn't really point to a particular psychological disorder. So anyway, if a gf is passive aggressive should you just give up on her because she's a nutcase (even if not clinically so), or should you try to deal with it?

    btw, passive aggressive people do NOT like being told that they are passive aggressive :fawk: And if you point out examples of their passive aggressive behavior? Here we go...

    edit - upon thinking about this more, is this a common trait in women? Almost every woman I know is like this to some extent.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2006
  2. nsane

    nsane New Member

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    I don't know that what you're describing is Passive Aggressiveness. I haven't done any research on it, but to me it seems like more of a non-verbal thing.

    What you seem to be describing is how women react when they are criticized after putting themselves on the line. If a girl wants you to call her and you don't, of course she's going to be mad. If a girl cooks something for you (specially for you) and you don't like it, she'll feel hurt. In the case of the party, the girl becomes so stressed about the party that she would rather not go to it than deal with the stressful situation revolving around it.

    Feel free to correct me.
     
  3. MattThom01

    MattThom01 New Member

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    doesn't sound like passive aggressive. Sounds like immature women who are overreacting.
     
  4. gkremian

    gkremian New Member

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    That isn't passive aggressiveness. That is immature overreaction. Passive aggressive is dodging situations involving conflict, and then being stubborn, resentful, sullen... etc. Blaming others, ambiguity, avoiding responsibilities, does not express hostility or anger openly are all signs of passive aggressiveness. What you have is the opposite of passive aggressiveness, because these girls are getting in your face.
     
  5. nsane

    nsane New Member

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    An example of passive aggressiveness:

    I threw some trash away in my roommate's trash can. From that day on, rather than mention it to me, he simply didn't take the trash out. It was overflowing massively when one of my friends mentioned that my roommate was not going to empty the trash because he was waiting to see how long it took until I did it. wtf?

    He avoided the confontation of just telling me that since I put some stuff in his can he'd like me to help out by "getting back at me" through not emptying the trash.
     
  6. PocoDiablo

    PocoDiablo New Member

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    Actually it is both, in my experience. Immaturity causes passive aggressiveness.

    This is one key issue that I frequently point out to guys. It is in fact a major issue that the mature man must subsequently face with his partner. After a woman says something like "Fine, I'm never cooking for you again!" you must address it. Something like "Hey, that was very rude and uncalled for. I do not expect you to react to me in such a childish manner. You're an adult, and I expect you to act like a mature adult as well."

    My personal take on this is that you must be the "father figure" as she is acting like the child. If you take the high road and do it calmly, maturely, and with a cool temperament then it shows you are the leader most women desire. If you, too, break down and get angry, bitch at her, or lose your self control then you prove yourself to be the immature little boy. That role is not where you want to be. You need to be the leader and help her grow to act more adult.

    You know how people say things like "Women want a man who is like their father"? I think it's right, but more so in terms of wanting you to be a leader, a rule maker, and a rule ENFORCER the way their father did. I think many women appreciate a strong leader, if you can do it in a mature manner.
     
  7. DSAzeppelin

    DSAzeppelin New Member

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    aaaannnnnddddd this is pretty much what led to the ultimate destruction of my last relationship.

    GF was a lot more immature than I thought, which led to her having this passive aggressive mindset(which I didn't realize since she hid it)...and then some shit happened, and due to her acting like this...everything was blown to shit. All of what you typed describes her mindset.

    when in reality, talking to me for 20 minutes would have made everything perfectly fine.


    :hsd:
     
  8. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    Yup.

    And she'd probably say something along the lines of:

    a) "What, are you my dad now? I already have one father. I don't need another one." (a girl said that to me once when I told her she was no fun when she drank too much at parties)

    b) "Don't tell me what to do."

    c) "Maybe you should find another girl who you think is more mature"

    Would c) be a shit test?
     
  9. MattThom01

    MattThom01 New Member

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    not really. The question alone shows that the girl is not willing to be more mature, or that she is incapable of it at the time.
     
  10. gkremian

    gkremian New Member

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    In either case, whenever I tried to be the calm, mature one, it typically backfired until she calmed down and realized that I was right. In the long run, since my ex was immature, it didn't necessarily fix anything but that's because we both held the capacity to be immature and I'm more than passive aggressive. It's pretty bad.
     
  11. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    Same story with me.

    <borat>
    "hi five!" :h5:

    </borat>
     
  12. PocoDiablo

    PocoDiablo New Member

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    All of these are tests. The very fact that a woman talks to you like that shows that she does not respect you - or at least she respects you very little. This behavior shows that she feels like she is in control of you, and you're *supposed* to :rolleyes: back down and let her take charge. It also shows that something is wrong with the relationship and needs to be addressed. Is it the dinner? No, highly unlikely.

    Part of the very CORE of the problem is that women don't really want to be in charge. The ones who talk like that are angry and DO need you to tell them to back down. If you let a woman steamroll you like that it occurs to me that you have already set a history of not standing up for yourself. That's a problem for women. They don't want a guy to back down. You're supposed to be grown up! An adult! You're not supposed to take shit from anyone, you're supposed to be in control and mature about it!

    If a woman ever said any of those lines to me, ANY of those lines, I'd likely stand up and say something like "Excuse me? What did you just say to me? What in the world do you think gives you the right to treat me like that. I absolutely will NOT tolerate being treated so rudely. You're WAY out of line, and we need to get this figured out now. Put that shit down, come in here, sit down, and let's get this fixed. Now, what's REALLY going on? Your reaction to me is WAY out of line, and makes absolutely NO sense whatsoever. What is really going on here?"

    You have to understand she is probably mad at something else in the relationship (could be a year old, as I have found some times) and it may take you a few days to even figure it out. Keep in mind that it may be something you did wrong, or *did NOT do* (which was wrong), and she's testing you. So now you get to sit down for an hour or more and figure it out. Don't blow it off as a bad day, or PMS, it's usually something deeper and more important.

    Quick real-life example:

    Last week my SO was pissed at me for hanging out with our roommate, who we've known for a year+. It got to the point where she was getting REALLY out of line. I told her pretty much the above. She was out of line and for no good reason. What was going on? Well, what it boiled down to was ... take a deep breath ... I was mad at her for breaking her promise to stop smoking last year because she promised she would before we got married. I am mad because I want her to be healthy so we can have kids. I also know when she is mad at me she'll smoke to piss me off. So I've taken it as she's mad at me. Well, it finally sub-consciously occurred to me that if I hung out with our roommate it would piss her off back. So without really thinking about it, or worrying about it, I was spending time with her instead of the SO. When we finally had a critical mass, I realized that it was in fact MY failure to tell her in no uncertain terms that she needs to stop smoking, no excuses. I also was mad at her for not cleaning up around the house, and I pretty much stopped last Friday and the house turned into a giant shithole. So I basically had stepped back and gave up to see what would happen. On top of that, we've gone through a role reversal because I have not been working for the past two months, and she has. Well, that often causes problems. She was working really late, and I hate being stuck at home. A lot of underground shit that I should have talked about caused the problems. Now she's working on stopping smoking, has been cleaning the house, I got a job the next day, and we're back on track. But you better believe I sat her down and talked with her until we got this all figured out. And then we took action.

    Bottom line? When a woman talks back to you in a relationship, don't just let it slide. If you do, things will end sooner or later. Confront problems.
     
  13. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    Does that work? That's awesome. In response, I would expect something like this:

    <girl>

    "Just cuz it doesn't make sense to YOU with YOUR logic doesn't mean you have to give ME shit for it."

    </girl>

    At that point do you just walk?
     
  14. BlazinBlazer Guy

    BlazinBlazer Guy Witness to The De-Evolution of Mankind.

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    If I got that response, I honestly have to say I'd dig right back: "Well at least I HAVE some logic. If you really want to deal with the situation, you're going to have to tell me what your problem is. Without knowing that, nothing will change since nobody will know WHAT to change." :noes:
     
  15. PocoDiablo

    PocoDiablo New Member

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    Oh yeah, that is EXACTLY the response you will get. And the point is that you have to keep pushing to find out what's really going on. Remember, she started it, but likely because of something you screwed up. Don't back down though. The true test, in my experience, is keep pushing until you BOTH are in agreement.

    And the trick is to do this without apologizing for some BS thing, but keeping on track and finding the real problem. Note my example above - at no point did I apologize for being passive. I said "I feel bad I never brought this up before" but never apologized. Make it clear you are looking for the solution that you BOTH agree on, until you do you must keep trying to solve the problem.
     
  16. enfiniti

    enfiniti How firm thy friendship ... OHIO!

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    this seems to be straight up what I am living right now. My SO always has a problem... I assume something I am NOT doing right rather than doing wrong. Whenever I ask about whats going on or 'talk' it always ends up going back to a situation from a year ago that we end up 'solving' every time we argue.

    But whenever she gets mad she either

    1. withholds sex or other intamacy
    1a. or withholds even like holding hands
    (this is because she doesnt feel comfortable in the ralationship)
    2.Wont cook dinner for the both of us but will cook a nice dinner enough for herself, or just expect me to cook.
    3. Get pissed/quiet if I have studying/grading(since I am a TA)/sleeping/anything for longer than she deems appropriate


    Then I finally get the drift and end up going back to the the same step... followed by step 1

    any other approaches to get around this?
     
  17. PocoDiablo

    PocoDiablo New Member

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    Then that is (1) clearly not the problem (2) the problem is that you have not picked up the real problem (3) you hopefully are not letting her "pull that same old shit on you again" and (4) are remaining calm, cool, collected, and only deal with her in the most mature way you can. If you loose your cool, you loose the deal.

    This is unhealthy. I would, quite frankly, tell her that if she uses sex as a tool to manipulate the relationship one more time, you're outta there. I mean, SERIOUSLY. That's a REAL red flag. Any woman who did that to me would be shown the door as soon as the said that, and no amount of begging or apologizing would let her back in. The problem is that you are letting her do this over and over and you are showing an extreme lack of self confidence to not say "Well, shit, I'm outta here. I need to find an adult woman, not a child. Sorry, this is inexcusable and I am not going to stick around with a little girl who thinks like this."

    Go on a date with another woman if she does this. Don't answer the phone. Don't talk about the date. Show her you can find a new woman. Go on a fake date if you have to. Don't brag about it though.

    Go out to a nice dinner by yourself. Leave her at home. Bring leftovers.

    Your relationship has serious problems because you have allowed this behavior to escalate to a very serious level. Backing down will be nearly impossible, but could be done. You need to think about how poorly she is treating you and realize that you can do a lot better - even if you're single.

    Yeah, don't tolerate it. If she pulls any of those tricks again, tell her that you've changed and you are no longer going to tolerate her behavior. Seriously. Let her know that if she thinks that is the way to work together for a long term future in a relationship that you will look elsewhere.

    I don't care if you live together, yada yada yada, you will need to move out and move on. You MUST learn from your mistakes, and letting someone walk all over you is the sign of failure.

    Trust me. That is how my ex-wife of 11 years treated me. You will be thankful when you never let anyone treat you like a child again.

    Joke:
    Do you know why divorce lawyers are so expensive?
    Because it's worth every fucking penny.

    I can attest to that. Worth every fucking penny to get rid of a controlling, unflexible, uncaring woman.

    Go get a dog. A big one. You'll meet lots of women, and the ones who are kind to your dog will probably be kind to you and your future kids.
     
  18. enfiniti

    enfiniti How firm thy friendship ... OHIO!

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    Yea, honestly though, i may have put it first but i can think of a few more important things than sex (read: not dating a bitch) and for the most part when things get rough, I dont really want it either, but never throw her off when she starts it


    Sad thing is I have.

    Every time it hits the fan after we try talking and serious talking we end up at step 1 and then I show her the door

    Then it becomes all my fault because I am 'willing to thorow it away' and am not as involved in this relationship'




    I guess the main issue is relationship or not, I really dont care, I enjoy my time in this relationship for the most part and really have a short fuse when it comes to arguing... if its not moving forward and we end up in circles, then I show the door.

    But then she comes back pleading that she was just over reacting....

    then we go again


    honestly though... I got way too much studying to do to deal with this, I got another few quarters and I'll have a M.S. in E.E. and clearly will do fine with or without her.

    I think thats where I do feel somewhat guilty that I know I'll be fine either way and feel bad when she brings up how I dont care with or without her.

    What you think? Slam the door and get a new phone... or maybe she'll come around
     
  19. MattThom01

    MattThom01 New Member

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    She's manipulting you. Next time she does it, actually go through with it and dump her.

    I am somewhat like Poco in relationships...there are a few things that I won't stand for. it's fine if she gets mad in a conflict, it's normal and human for this to happen.

    What I won't stand for is manipulation and immaturity.

    I'll give an example. When my current gf and I were first hanging out, we kinda rushed into things and started calling ourselves "bf and gf". Well, the next night, I kinda got flashed on a Yahoo webcam...she freaked out, decided we shouldn't see each other. She still wanted to be friends or whatever though.

    She comes over the next morning, and while we are hanging out, she is giving me weird feelings like she is taking potshots at me with what she says. At one point she said something about me "not having any self-control". I had enough, and asked her to leave. She left, but later called back and said that it was only after she left and thought about it, that she realized how much of a bitch she had been being.

    Anyways, we basically kinda ended up starting over, and didn't rush into anything, and now we are dating exclusively.

    The point is, you have to ask yourself "how much shit am I going to take from this girl?"
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2006
  20. fray

    fray New Member

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    Observation, not an attack on you, because you sound like you've got it down pretty well.... but we're not always "witholding sex". If I'm mad, I don't want to have sex. I'm not going to let myself get fucked while I'm upset and not feeling cared about, etc. That's a far cry from outright thinking about it and deciding that I'm not going to have sex in order to punish someone. I think that's absolutely wrong, yet I still see the two grouped together all too often.
     
  21. PocoDiablo

    PocoDiablo New Member

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    MattThom01 has it right. Set your standards and don't take shit.

    See, the problem is that you show her the door and then take her back. The problem is "backing off" all the time. What is really going on is that she knows you cannot make a decision and stick to it. You're not an adult male, and THAT is the problem. In order to "win" at relationships, and this one, you have to show her the door and STICK TO IT. The problem is that it means the relationship is over. And if you ever take her back, then you have failed AGAIN. It's a catch-22. You're fucked if you do, and fucked if you don't.

    My personal feeling is that once a relationship gets to that point you will never be happy, nor will she, so you need to cut out and learn your lesson and apply it to the next woman. You'll both be much happier in the long run.

    Your short fuse is likely also another killer for the relationship. You gotta get self control to be considered a mature adult. Think about it. If you get mad, act mad, drive mad, throw things, etc., it's all very immature.

    My dad helped me figure this out by telling me "How would it look if it were on the 6 o'clock news? What if the camera team was right there?" Boy, if you think about it like that, it makes me change a LOT.

    It's a test, and you fail if you take her back.

    It's a childish game. You are the man when you kick her to the curb, then she is the man when she gets you to take her back. You have to make a decision and stick to it!

    From what you just said? If you can't live without her, then you don't need to.

    The other night I almost did something stupid and could have jeopardized my relationship with my fiance. I realized that I would be a complete fool to lose her. I felt so bad I was getting hot flashes and twitching. When you have a PHYSICAL reaction to losing your partner, you know she's the right one! When you can live without her ... maybe you should.
     
  22. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    Can you give them one chance? They do something immature, you kick them to the curb. They come back and apologize, and ask you to take them back, and you say "ok, don't let it happen again" (maybe they made a mistake). Then if they do it again, it's over for real.

    Can you allow one second chance?

    What about in the reverse situation? The girl is being immature, you don't stand for it, so SHE dumps YOU (cuz she has a quick temper and doesn't think before she acts), and then decides a day or two later that she wants to "try to make things work." Is that her failing, then?
     
  23. BlazinBlazer Guy

    BlazinBlazer Guy Witness to The De-Evolution of Mankind.

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    As far as I'm concerned if a girl is so immature that she'd dump you without thinking it through first, it's not worth giving her another chance.

    It makes it obvious that she's not mature enough to handle a serious relationship; if she were, she'd be willing to put effort into working through issues instead of dropping the whole relationship at the drop of a hat.
     
  24. PocoDiablo

    PocoDiablo New Member

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    If you break up with her, NO. That's final and permanent. Taking her back opens a door for abuse.

    You can give her one warning, and you should have given her your standards from the beginning. If you didn't warn her, then yes - by all means - give her one chance. Maybe two if it's something big. Three or more? No.

    Example: My ex-wife used to accuse me of cheating on her, all the fucking time. So finally I told her "If you accuse me of cheating one more time, and you do NOT have physical proof such as photographs, videos, or walking in on me, I will divorce you. Understood?" So, sure enough, one week later she does it again, and before she can get the rest of the sentence out I interrupt her and said something like "Hey, do you remember what I told you last week? Consider this your one and ONLY warning to remember." It never happened again.

    Again, maybe, but not for break-ups.

    Fuck that. She made her decision, you should tell her "No way, I'm not falling for that again." Never let a woman dump you AND take you back. That's just asking for trouble because you are at her mercy, and she'll know she can do it again and you'll come crawling back for more punishment later.
     
  25. MattThom01

    MattThom01 New Member

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    I'll just add something here. If a girl acts immature, or does something that you won't tolerate, and you ask her to leave, break up with her, etc, it's OK to feel upset or sad.

    In my earlier story, when i asked my friend at the time to leave my house, yes, I was kind of upset. It felt as if I were ending the friendship/possible relationship (and well, I was kinda at the time). It's a good feeling knowing that you are sticking to your standards, but it is also normal to feel the loss of the potential relationship it turned into.

    Fortunately for me, my response to her actions helped her see how she was acting at the time. We started from there, and things have worked out much better since then.

    Basically..when you take a stand, it's OK and normal to feel sad and/or dissappointed. The trick is to not act on those feelings by taking her back for a quick fix. You have to wait and see if she is willing to tolerate your standards and change her behavior.

    If she isn't then you have to go through the sometiems tough part of moving on. And that's where we can help. You can come on here, vent, and know that we will support you. We guys have to stick together and support each other, just as the women on here have to also support each other.

    Repeating it one last time...don't expect to take your firm stand anf necessarily feel great about it with no regrets.
     

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