GUN +P question

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by RyeLou, Jul 26, 2007.

  1. RyeLou

    RyeLou OT Supporter

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    I was bored and reading around about different loads and the history of them and ran across an article about self defense rounds. Specifically, using +P and +P+ jacketed hollow point loads in 9mm. The article actually said that in legally justifiable situations the higher pressure loads brought about legal issues with the bullet itself.

    Anyone read any stories where this was the case? I can see the points from both sides but it hardly seems like overkill on a 9mm. No more anyhow than using a larger caliber altogether.
     
  2. RonJeremey

    RonJeremey OT Supporter

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    The gun, the ammo, the tactical accessories on your gun... none of this matters in Texas. If it was a clean, legal shoot, you're good to go. I don't know about your state.
     
  3. RyeLou

    RyeLou OT Supporter

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    Michigan isn't quite like Texas but they're not bad IMO. In Oct. of '06 they got rid of the Duty to Retreat which is nice for personal protection I guess.

    I've never heard of any stories that had legal allegations based solely on the type of bullet used. I was just curious.
     
  4. Keesh

    Keesh New Member

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    The way I look at it, if you do have to shoot someone because you fear for your life, or the life of someone else. The last thing you should be worried about is what kind of gun/bullets you are using. You should use what will end the threat the quickest and safest.
     
  5. 993kgt

    993kgt building an airplane whee

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    +P is a sales tactic, you want controllable ammunition in a deadly situation, not deer hunting ammo in your pistol
     
  6. RyeLou

    RyeLou OT Supporter

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    So your vote would be regular JHP?
     
  7. 993kgt

    993kgt building an airplane whee

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    as opposed to HP (non jacketed?) or what?

    For my carry ammo I use reloads I handpack, and I handpack to less than most factory (non +P) loads
     
  8. RonJeremey

    RonJeremey OT Supporter

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    ... :ugh:

    My ranger SXT 127gr +p+ is perfectly controllable. I shoot the same groupings with it that I do with my practice ammo...

    I shoot the +p+ because my carry gun is a 3.5" barrel and I want the extra velocity to keep penetration power up.
     
  9. idleprocess

    idleprocess Bring a dollar with you baby in the cold cold grou

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    Other than controllability, I have gathered that the main issues with +P & +P+ are whether your firearm can handle them, and whether the bullets themselves are designed for higher overpressure velocities.
     
  10. RyeLou

    RyeLou OT Supporter

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    What do you mean controllability?

    I believe mine is fine with +P. I've seen the question come up from various other owners of my gun but I've never seen anyone ask about +P+.
     
  11. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    Carry whatever you want don't worry about people rambling on about crap like that.
     
  12. [DWI]

    [DWI] Master of Nothing

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    Basically when it comes down to it, I'd rather be alive and in legal trouble than dead. That being said the chance of having to use the gun is slim and the stakes if you have to use it are so great that I would choose to carry the most powerful and effective ammo that you are comfortable and proficient with.

    After all better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6. (Just remember those 12 weren't able to get out of jury duty.)
     
  13. idleprocess

    idleprocess Bring a dollar with you baby in the cold cold grou

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    If you don't practice with overpressure rounds, you might have trouble keeping on target. User issue, not a weapon issue.
     
  14. no7fish

    no7fish New Member

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    Ditto that. I use CorBon +P 230gr .45's in my UCII for just that reason. They tend to use faster burning powder in the +P's and that's good for the shorter barrels, even if you don't get the full vel of the round.

    And mine is perfectly accurate, even holds level better than the practice rounds. The +P's hit right where the sight picture says but most regular shooting rounds drop an inch or 2.
     
  15. RonJeremey

    RonJeremey OT Supporter

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    Depends entirely on your barrel/rifling. And at typical accepted "self defense" distances, I haven't noticed more than a 1" variation between different load pressures from my glocks.
     
  16. RyeLou

    RyeLou OT Supporter

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  17. no7fish

    no7fish New Member

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    Nice link. It does look like they don't drop very much until 100 yds or so. Ionno then... but regardless of where the thing is sighted, a slower bullet will drop faster, even if it is on the way up. As in, if it's pointed slightly up then it'll rise less, peak sooner, and drop sooner.

    How do you mean the hit lower? I've never seen that...
     
  18. no7fish

    no7fish New Member

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    Well they don't actually "rise" out of the barrel, they follow a path tangent to the axis of the barrel and fall away from that trajectory at different rates. there's no lift involved. The reason they go up and then down is because the sight line is above the line of the barrel so they have to be adjusted to converge at some point to create a valid aim point. Assuming the sightline is level, the bullet will move upward but that's because the barrel is pointed slightly up to converge with the sightline. Hence, the faster bullet should cross that line faster and spend more time above it.

    Admittedly we are talking very small amounts that close to the barrel so I'm guessing there is more to it, such as lockup. Since the cycling on a handgun is usually a result of recoil I'm guessing that since the bullet exits the barrel faster/sooner, the action also moves back faster/sooner. Part of the issue may be that mine is a very short barrel so the angle it gets to before the bullet exits will be steeper for the same distance down at the rear and all 1911's have the same drop at the chamber end. I can't say there's a trend because there's more than one variable there but maybe this is why some guns shoot lower on +p's and others higher...?

    The twist being constant for both rounds shouldn't really change the trajectory unless there is something different about the bullets. The biggest thing is the difference in the canter of the geometry of the bullet and the center of mass. If they are different then the bullet will go off-center when it leaves the barrel but there is no reason this would always be up or down, most likely random and also not based on speed, just individual bullet differences.... Unless there's something I'm missing in terms of the dynamics of putting a spin on the thing.
     

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