MMA Overrated and Underrated Fighters (by less casual MMA fans)

Discussion in 'OT Bar' started by Sammo, Jan 5, 2007.

  1. Sammo

    Sammo New Member

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    In this thread I'm talking about fighters that are typically overrated by more hardcore MMA fans. For example, Tito Ortiz is typically regarded very highly by the casual fan who watched him on TV, but that's not what I'm talking about.

    Anyways, here are some of mine:

    Yoshida and Nakamura

    I think Nakamura is really overrated. Shogun was toying with him for the most part and never let loose his striking, but he still ran a jiu-jitsu clinic on him. Nakamura generally isn't fast and has weak takedowns, even if he was a national Japanese Judo champion. Nakamura is in the top 10 but I don't feel he belongs there.

    Yoshida is also well known for going the distance with Wanderlei and subbing a totally MMA green Hunt, but that's it. Yoshida applies his judo better to MMA, but has a serious weakness for leg kicks

    Rashad Evans/Keith Jardine
    Honestly I think either of these guys would ruin Nakamura, but neither of them are in the top 10. When the face a little higher opposition I think people will realize what is what.
     
  2. Degenerate

    Degenerate Optimus Riem! OT Supporter

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    Takanori Gomi - This dude has zero ground game. Sure he's got explosive hands but he's ass on the ground. Terribly over rated but exciting guy to watch when he's on his feet.

    Tito Ortiz - He's still around because of Ken Shamrock. He was never good to begin with. He's nothing but hype. He's only popular because of his charisma and personality. Similar to Nick Diaz.

    Rickson Gracie - /thread
     
  3. AK-47

    AK-47 Banned

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    Fabricio Werdum is underrated IMO, he's fought some really good fights and beat some tough opponents
     
  4. jmx2323

    jmx2323 OT Supporter

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    So far I would agree with all
     
  5. Skeletor

    Skeletor Guest

    Liddell is positively the most overrated fighter in MMA today. UFC fans, even the hardcore ones, claim he's the best LHW, which is true as far as within his own organization thus far... However his team threw in the towel against Rampage. His fighting style really isn't that great.... While on one hand he's incredibly good at just getting up with a ground fighter gets him down, his striking is incredibly overrated when many people regard him as superb. His counter striking is great against the right opponent, but a good striker shouldn't have to wait to get one thrown at him in order to throw one himself. I'm not saying he isn't a great fighter, because he is, but he's nowhere near the best out there and many claim he is.

    Aleks Emelianenko is also overrated. Again, he is a great fighter in some respects, but lousy in others. If his opponent stands up against him, chances are they will fall. He's knocked out several guys incredibly fast with his boxing, and considering he's made it so far and won so many fights with just boxing and some rudimentary grappling is quite impressive... But he's not well rounded in the least, never really uses kicks and avoids the ground at all costs.. If by some chance he gets taken down, he doesn't usually know what to do (see: Aleks v. Barnett) or have the ability to do it. Like chuck, one aspect of his striking is incredibly successful in the ring, which is his punching. He demonstrates knees sometimes but otherwise rarely ever uses kicks, and lacks substantial ground talent. His size plays a big role in his success also.


    kind of OT but it's surprising that Aleks doesn't really do much on the ground in Pride, but we've seen him outgrapple Fedor in Sambo tournament(s) on video.
     
  6. Degenerate

    Degenerate Optimus Riem! OT Supporter

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    I'd hardly call Aleks overated. I don't think many people rate him that high to begin with.
     
  7. Skeletor

    Skeletor Guest

    Well if they don't then he's not, but I've heard enough people call him second best in order to believe that's overrated by many.
     
  8. jmx2323

    jmx2323 OT Supporter

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    SO with that would you include Forrest in there
     
  9. jmx2323

    jmx2323 OT Supporter

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    you must be talking to some uninformed people to hear them say Aleks is the 2 HW in the world
     
  10. Skeletor

    Skeletor Guest

    :dunno: I've seen several asshats saying that the Emelianenko brothers DOMINATE the MMA world :rofl: It's usually right after Aleks fights where he kicks the shit out of somebody, and then they quiet down until it happens again.



    Perhaps I overemphasized his rating by most people.
     
  11. Skeletor

    Skeletor Guest

    As for hardcore fans, the ones who really know what's up, it's hard to really consider anything wrong. Almost everybody in the cage knows whose better than who, because they base it on their fights against each other, plus the occasional retarded MMA math (when it's logical and reasonable i.e. Fedor could kick Sylvia's ass, not Fedor would surely lose to Crocop therefore Crocop must be best).

    That doesn't stop anybody from having a favorite fighter who might be an underdog and have a lower official rank than others. Example: one of my favorite LHW's is Alistair Overeem for various reasons. I know he's not the best and I don't act like he is, so you can't really say that I overrate him.
     
  12. metallikatz56

    metallikatz56 New Member

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    Little Nog. Not so much under-rated, but constantly overlooked.

    Overrated? Forrest Griffin, as much as I admire his effort. Liddell. He has yet to face a Pride-level opponent and succeed. His style leaves so many openings that a top-tier striker can easily exploit.
    I would've said Arlovski when he had the belt, but he showed his glaring weakness to the world when he got smoked by Tim.
    Gomi. I think someone like Sherk, Penn, or even Joe Stevenson would give him a hard time if they got inside his reach.
     
  13. itr452

    itr452 VTEC motherfucker, GOT ANY?

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    Rashad Evans and Jardine would ruin Nakamura? How the fuck could you even equate those two to Nakamura. Having stated that, would they "ruin" Nakamura like Shogun was expected to? Might i have to remind you the time that Nakamura destroyed Randleman? Nak fighting awesome buddy Evans would be even worse for Evans because Nakamura would use his inferior judo ground game to rip Evans fuckin arm off. Don't even get me started on fuckin Jardine either, you toolshed.

    Shogun didn't let loose his striking because Nakamura was beating him while standing. For a guy who was expected to knock the fuck out of Nakamura, Shogun didn't do very much to prove that he's the best in the division. Is it because Shogun sucks ass? I think not, but it was because Nakamura fought a smart fight and knew how to neutralize Shogun's attacks. Was Shogun still toying with Nakamura when Shogun was severely getting outboxxed by Nakamura as well? Even with superior positioning on the ground (2x taking Nakamura's back and sinking in hooks) did Shogun manage to choke him out? No, Shogun didn't. Nakamura wasn't aggressive enough to have won that match, but Shogun hardly destroyed Nakamura like you think, yes it was a unanimous decision, but hardly a beatdown. Oh and before you pass opinion off as fact, Nakamura was never a national judo champion in Japan, he took up judo from Yoshida. However; Nakamura was a Sambo champion in Japan. As for Nakamura's takedowns being weak, please /yourself.

    Since you've stated that Nakamura doesn't belong in the top 10, i'd like to see who you'd place in the top 10 in 205.

    You're probably one of those guys that think that they're overrated because they're Japanese. As for being suceptable to leg kicks, figure this. Yoshida trashed up his knee early in his Judo career, add that to Crocop's badass kicks, and you've got a gimped knee, just like everybody else. Yoshida isn't anywhere near as good as people make him out to be, but whoever thinks that Yoshida's anywhere near Pride's top 10 in that division would be even dumber than you. Oh and btw, i know this is flamebait for Kuet, but eat a dick anyhow.

    Moist regards,
    Carson
     
  14. Skeletor

    Skeletor Guest

    Good call. It's just because he doesn't fight enough these days so he doesn't immediately pop into your head when you think of great current fighter.
     
  15. metallikatz56

    metallikatz56 New Member

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    Oh, and Iggy V. is another under-rated fighter. He hasn't fought in a while, but prior to his losses to Overeem and Nakamura, he was mentioned in the same breath as CroCop and Silva. Now he's all but forgotten. 45-9 is nothing to laugh at.
     
  16. Skeletor

    Skeletor Guest

    he was an incredible fighter... I think he's just been in it for longer than most other guys he's up against in Pride so he's slowing it down, much like Little Nog.


    The bad thing about MMA is so many new faces = forgetting the older fighters who rocked some serious shit even just a few years ago.
     
  17. Sammo

    Sammo New Member

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    Somehow I knew my post would anger you, you're the biggest Nak/Yosh fan on this board. I'll look at your post later but I have to go buy groceries right now.
     
  18. itr452

    itr452 VTEC motherfucker, GOT ANY?

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    Somehow, you were right.
     
  19. metallikatz56

    metallikatz56 New Member

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    I wonder why Little Nog hasn't fought much lately. Over a year passed between his loss to Shogun and his victory over Overeem. He's the same age as Big Nog (obviously), and should just be coming into his prime. With the names he's beaten, he should be taking a run at the MW title. Maybe Wandy's mystery opponent in Feb? :noes:
     
  20. itr452

    itr452 VTEC motherfucker, GOT ANY?

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    Overrated:

    Gomi & Genki Sudo - too bad they're so fuckin exciting to watch, it hardly matters that they're overrated, but excellent entertainers.
     
  21. xinster

    xinster New Member

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    Fujita overrated
     
  22. Sammo

    Sammo New Member

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    1. Nakamura didn't "destroy" Randleman at all. It was a boring performance in typical Nakamura fare, and his victory over Randleman would mean something if Randleman's left lung wasn't collapsed at the time. He was completely drained.

    2. Nakamura has shown consistently average takedown skills in his fights. If you think he would "rip Evan's arm off" with judo, you're insane. Rashad has powerful takedowns, excellent athleticism and speed, and has greatly improved his ground game. He would pass Nakamura's crappy guard in seconds. Jardine would like smash Nakamura as well, like I said.

    3. Shogun hasn't had the same stand-up since his fight with Lil' Nog, he's still incredible though. But like I said in my original argument, frankly I feel that Shogun was mostly toying with Nakamura. He could have wrecked Nakamura when he had him mounted, but he choose not to.

    4. Nakamura has weak takedowns and takedown defense. I know you are a big judo guy, but sorry, it's the truth. He's been takedown by Galbraith and was also taken down by Shogun with extreme ease.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2007
  23. Sammo

    Sammo New Member

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    I feel they are overrated by the hardcore crowd, but probably because they both fight in Pride. Anyways, he's been leg kicked by more people than Cro Cop..he just simply doesn't know how to defend them. People also say Yoshida is good, so that's why I included him in my original post...he got smashed by James Thomspon recently too, so I guess that killed some of those thoughts in the MMA crowd. :mamoru:
     
  24. itr452

    itr452 VTEC motherfucker, GOT ANY?

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    Randleman got straight tooled by Nakamura, even if it wasn't the most exciting of fights.

    If you're using Randleman and Evans in the same sentence without saying "Randleman would bitchslap Evans" you're wrong again........ BZZZZZZZZZZZT. If Evans did pass Nakamura's guard, he'd probably just lay on him like he Evans has been known to do. Jardine could/would not hang with Nakamura at all. Jardine would get straight up pwned by Nakamura. Thx

    Here's some of Nakamura's shitty takedowns http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4655517210395828586

    Just like Nakamura could have pwned Shogun when they were standing, but instead Nakamura wanted a challenge by going to the ground with Shogun. :mamoru: GREAT LOGIC there!!!

    Galbraith couldn't do dick to Nakamura on the ground either, he almost got a kneebar, but Nak introduced Galbraith's face to his knee, so it's all good.

    As for Shogun taking down Nakamura with extreme ease, Yep; ya got me there.

    who the hell overrates them except for me? As far as I know, i'm the only Judo nuthugger here (admittedly). I'm all for Yoshida quitting the MMA game, I hate watching the old dude lose, it was as disturbing as watching an old Royce Gracie getting destroyed by a younger and vastly stronger Matt Hughes.

    Again, I ask for your top 10 ranking in 205. Thx
     
  25. Skeletor

    Skeletor Guest

    James Thompson is fucking huge and he got a punch in... that's all it takes for guys whose arms weigh 50 lbs each if they hit you right. After that point Yoshida was stunned... if they were in the same weight class (they're both "hw" technically, but a 30+ pound difference is huge even at 230+) it probably wouldn't have been as devastating a hit and things may have been differently, who knows. What I do know is they're creating a Super-Heavy Weight class for 07 and the outcome of that fight is probably a huge reason why.
     

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