Overcoming my old beliefs v.I'm fucking crazy v.What self improvement/PUA means to me

Discussion in 'Vaginarium' started by Falconer, Jul 10, 2007.

  1. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    This is hard to write. This is seriously my 3rd attempt (the first one was even longer).

    Preface: This is gonna sound really fucking crazy, but I'm trying my hardest to explain it logically without jumping around or leaving things out.

    I am 26. Ever since I was in elementary school I wondered why some people were good socially and some people weren't, a question that spawned from my jealousy of not being one of the "cool kids." I eventually developed a system to explain this, which I assumed was just me becoming aware of what was going on in my brain subconsciously. That system was based entirely on physical looks. Let me explain before you rush in to say how superficial/prejudice/retarded this is.

    The core of this belief system was that certain traits that manifested themselves physically were responsible for one's social place in life. I say "looks," but I don't necessarily mean "good looks" or "bad looks," as you might first assume, but rather objective physical characteristics that other people pick up on only on a subconscious level (the oft-cited "facial symmetry" would be a very high-level example of this). The last time I attempted to write this, I spent way too much time here describing examples of this, so I'm just gonna skip this now, because it's pointless. It's like asking someone to describe a smell. Basically, as bad as it sounds, I came to believe that nearly everything about a person, from intelligence to social success to charisma to hobbies to interests were correlated with one's physical appearance. I noticed trends that took me years to finally understand. One day I went through my sister's yearbook with her and just from looking at facial photos told her who was popular, who was a nerd, who was into sports, who was into cars, who was smart, who was dumb etc. Statistically you shouldn't be able to do this. So it reinforced the belief in me that everything was related (note I didn't say "caused by" or "as a result of,") to physical appearance. This also lead me to the conclusion that your social status in life was basically out of your control as your genes determined who you were, one manifestation of which was your physical appearance. Call it a self-fulfilling prophecy if you want, but nearly every person I met or observed reinforced these beliefs.

    Before you counter with a "everyone forms their own identity" argument, consider this.

    Assume that there is a set of physical traits that make one popular/high social status. Call them x. Assume that other people pick this up innately and subconsciously. From the time you first interact with others, they will be picking up on this and acting accordingly. Therefore, people who possess x will develop a "high status identity" because of how other people treat them, which is based on their looks.

    That concept can be extrapolated to explain people's social peer groups, interests, etc., which is all based on how other people treat them, which is all based on subconscious reactions to how they look. I am resisting the urge to give examples here because it would make this post 5 pages long and it would also offend a lot of people.

    I formed a hypothesis that I called the "paper bag society" where you have a society in which everyone wears a paper bag over their head so visible facial characteristics are blocked. This would result in a mental-attribute driven society because there would be no automatic "falling into line" social hierarchy based on people's looks.

    Furthermore, under my old belief system, I believed that these physical traits were things that could not really be changed... it wasn't about hair color, or how straight your teeth were, or height, or weight. A woman who does not possess x who happens to be average-looking could bleach her teeth, fix her skin, get in shape, do whatever, become a 9 or 10 on paper, but she still would not possess x and would not rise socially.

    As I mentioned in an earlier paragraph, I believed that your social status was determined by your genetic physical characteristics and was therefore out of your control. Because of this conclusion, and since I didn't believe that I possessed x based on how other people treated me, I got depressed about the whole thing because I basically accepted that I can't do anything to change my success socially.

    I observed, for example, that two people could be in the same social situation and do the same exact thing, but have vastly different consequences. Why? Because of an outward manifestation of their physical appearance. It was acceptable for one person, and not for the other person. (PUAs would probably explain this by saying that one person's actions were not "being congruent." I would reply that this is correct, that their actions were not "congruent" with their physical appearance... ie., a nerdy kid trying to do something that only a cool kid could pull off, and the cool kid can only pull it off because of his looks).


    Of course, there are always exceptions. For example, a dork might end up with a hot chick because he's rich. Or, he might end up with an attractive woman who happens to base her actions on logical thought rather than raw masculine attraction to an alpha male (such women are few, but they exist).


    I always tried my hardest not to judge people on their looks. I always felt that I knew where everyone would fit in socially just from seeing them, but I tried not to act on it because I reasoned that it's not fair... you can't control your genetics and therefore shouldn't be penalized for being born with less than perfect genes. But like I said, my assumptions about where these people fit in, even just people-watching and having no direct interaction, were almost always correct.


    Regardless of whether you agree with me or you think I'm fucking crazy, imagine having a limiting belief system like this that, no matter how hard you try, and no matter how hard you want to, you cannot disprove empirically. Every perspective I looked at it from, every real life example, everything I saw in society supported this belief system. Imagine how depressing that is. Imagine that, with a core belief system like this, how I've developed body dysmorphic disorder, which really makes no sense because all the stuff I can change, under my old belief system, wouldn't make a difference anyway. No matter how big and ripped I get, or how white my teeth are, or how tan I am, none of that compensates for lack of x.

    This is what I battle with on a daily basis. I really, really struggle with concepts like rebuilding your identity. I've seen it so many times before... a dork who suddenly gets confidence and acts all alpha is still a dork, and now he's an even bigger dork because he's not being congruent with his true nature. His nature is to be a dork. A dork genetically with a newfound alpha attitude is now a wannabe, incongruent dork.


    Alright, now fuck everything I just said.

    I am taking a huge leap of faith here and I am assuming that all the self-improvement gurus are correct, that all the PUA shit that I've been reading for the last 6 months is based in truth, and that you CAN change yourself and become high-social status. I don't think I can explain how fucking huge this is to me. This is like a physicist getting a call from his college professor who tells him he was "just kidding when I taught you that theory of relativity. It doesn't really work that way. The foundations which you've proved yourself through experiments and upon which you've based everything you've done are wrong."

    So here we go. I'm finally ready to jump head first into this shit. And I figure in a way, it's win-win for me. Either 1) I improve my life and become awesome, or 2) I further support my original belief system (which, as much as I get a fucking hard-on from being right about things, I really, really don't want to be right about this).

    I also have a feeling that this is going to be like learning how to fight at a MMA (Brazilian Jiu-jitsu and Muay Thai) school... that you will actually get worse before you start to improve. In MMA it's because you're reprogramming the neural pathways that deal with movement. You're retraining your body how to act when you are attacked or when you attack. In the PUA example, I guess it's analogous to that except there's a mental component as well.

    Have at me.
     
  2. FloppyCock

    FloppyCock New Member

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    Unless you can convince yourself, and I mean truly convince yourself, that you aren't a dork anymore, you always will be. Personally, I have never met an adult who managed to do this.

    Also, side-note, your MMA analogy smells like garbage.
     
  3. Kalypso

    Kalypso New Member

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    :ugh:
     
  4. Please stop giving advice.
     
  5. FloppyCock

    FloppyCock New Member

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    Please fuck off. Thank you.
     
  6. You put someone down who doesn't need that, you make him believe that change an becoming a better person is impossible, you are a pessimist. That's not right, especially for him of all people. You are not supportive and you insult me when I'm trying to kindly tell you to stop. You are honestly a fool.
     
  7. PocoDiablo

    PocoDiablo New Member

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    As we all well know, people who put their minds to something can achieve anything they want. As a human being, your most powerful tool is your mind. We all have a body, and while looks do have SOMETHING to do with it, I can assure you that it's only a small part of the whole deal.

    I've walked into a huge nightclub, spent a few minutes checking out the scene, and then walking up to the clique of hottest of hot women and get right "in" within a few seconds. I'm talking the circle of women that has an empty 10' radius aroung them because no one has the balls to go say hi. And you know what? These women are often boring and stupid. They are not up to MY standards, and I'm the one turning them down. Why? Well, put a paper bag over their head and find out.

    Anyone who tells you that you will fail, or it cannot be done, or you are a loser, is likely striking out at other people in anger, insecurity, or plain ignorance. It's often easier for someone to tear someone else down than to admit that they are struggling with the same issues. We all face the same battles in our lives. Why do you think we can give people advice? It's because we've seen it, lived it, done it before. Someone telling you that it can't be done simply hasn't figured out how to do it.

    I'll tell you that it's impossible to climb Mount Everest withuot oxygen. Ask Reinhold Messner and Peter Habeler - they did it in 1978.

    The people who tell you it can be done say so because they've done it. The ones who say otherwise ...
     
  8. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    Yeah. I'm just saying, it's very hard to reject an old model that correctly predicts and explains almost 100% of social interactions.

    But I'm going to.
     
  9. giz

    giz Active Member

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    Good luck, man.

    :ugh::ugh::ugh:
     
  10. Tiberium

    Tiberium Active Member

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    it is very difficult to lose the dork image in the minds of people who have always known u to be a dork, no matter how different you have become. IMO, the only people who now see me as a desirable stud are those who DID NOT know me before I changed.
     
  11. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    Looks like somebody needs to stfu.
     
  12. Yail Bloor

    Yail Bloor OT Supporter

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    Headed to the gym, will read when I return.
     
  13. FloppyCock

    FloppyCock New Member

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    :rofl:

    All the PUA guys are getting their panties in a twist. What I said is true; unless you can convince yourself, nothing else you do is important.
     
  14. Kalypso

    Kalypso New Member

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    Almost none of the people responding are PUA's. You're just insulting them because you don't want to admit that that many people strongly disagree with you and that you may be wrong. Face the fact that it was a dipshit remark instead of lambasting other peoples character.
     
  15. I didn't convince myself, I changed, what about you flapjack?
     
  16. NCS

    NCS Active Member

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    Look at the pick up guru's. Most of them were awful in the beginning. David D, to me, does not "seem like a dork". Does he to you? Do you believe that he was originally a dork as he says he was? Thats one counter example.

    Now, i'm going to say maybe you're right, and we'll take another guru example, Style. Have you seen before & after vids of this guy? Before, he was most definetely a dork. Now, he still seems "intellectual" which you may call dorky. According to your belief system, he is a HUGE dork for practicing pick up. How can you explain his success? He magically found women attracted to intelligence? I don't think so, not for all of them.

    Now lets forget everyone and focus on YOU. In your belief system, YOU cannot change. Why are you trying? The simple fact that you're trying means that somewhere, your unconscious is KICKING AND SCREAMING "the truth is out there." You consciously read stuff for 6 months, but your conscious mind hasn't adopted these new beliefs. Your unconscious is a step ahead, working on it, and THIS is why you write this post.


    Also, you, and i mean YOU, NEED to read Mind Lines and you need to watch a david d vid with a guest speaker, i forget the dude's name, who's a little guy in a wheelchair. This is the "material" out there that I know of that may help you.
     
  17. FloppyCock

    FloppyCock New Member

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    I know full well that many people strongly disagree with me, and I am comfortable with that. It isn't going to stop me from voicing my opinion.

    It was a true statement, followed by my opinion. Take it or leave it, either reaction is fine, but whining about it is just funny.
     
  18. Kalypso

    Kalypso New Member

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    Alright, well how about this, your opinion is wrong.

    I am a COMPLETELY different person than the one I was 3 years ago, 100% because of taking control of and changing my own life. I know several other people who fit into this category. Anyone that's successful fits into this category, do you think people are just born with a silver spoon in their mouth? Most work their asses off for it, if you don't think anyone changes you're living in a very deluded, sad world.
     
  19. Your opinion is wrong and full of false self-fulfilling propecies, I'll leave it, because you have done nothing but make false ideas.
     
  20. FloppyCock

    FloppyCock New Member

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    How old were you 3 years ago?
     
  21. Kalypso

    Kalypso New Member

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    16.

    *incoming comment about maturity*

    I've always been much more mature and intellectually progressed than the average person of my age, so don't focus too much on it. Most people who talk to me on the internet, or in real life at times are surprised as fuck that I'm 19, people expect me to be 25~ish. At 16 I was probably as knowledgeable and mature as the average 20~24 year old. However, I had a fairly different pattern of behavior than now, which is all due to self-actualization and improvement.
     
  22. Floppy stop saying those things.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2007
  23. FloppyCock

    FloppyCock New Member

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    So you weren't an adult, and you still aren't. You'll probably do some growing in the next few years, too.

    I stand by my statement that the only person you need to convince is yourself, and I have yet to meet an adult that has done this.
     
  24. Kalypso

    Kalypso New Member

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    What constitutes an adult to you? I go to school and work, I have my own place, I'm pursuing a career, I do everything for myself, etc. I don't know how else you define adult.
     

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