OT SOUND GUYS! Are these speakers any good?

Discussion in 'OT Technology' started by linenoyz, Feb 26, 2004.

  1. linenoyz

    linenoyz OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2002
    Messages:
    7,626
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Algonquin, IL
    I just got a pair of these for free. I've never heard them, but I'm wondering if they're even worth messing with.

    They're JBL Control 5 speakers. Dunno what else. :dunno:
     
  2. Shikado

    Shikado David-Michelle-Edgar-Tony :wtc:

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2001
    Messages:
    24,676
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Lakers Town, Northern Mexico
    free stuff ownz
     
  3. linenoyz

    linenoyz OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2002
    Messages:
    7,626
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Algonquin, IL
    :eek3: $460 for the pair new?

    Sweet. :wiggle:
     
  4. On_One

    On_One Guest

    They are pretty popular in pro sound world. Decent monitor. Might as well give em a try.
     
  5. linenoyz

    linenoyz OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2002
    Messages:
    7,626
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Algonquin, IL
    Actually, I can get a 3rd one pretty easily... think they'd work well for left/right/center channel speakers?
     
  6. linenoyz

    linenoyz OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2002
    Messages:
    7,626
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Algonquin, IL
    My home reciever only does 100W per channel. I read these are rated for 175. :sad2:

    Okay...what would be a cheap alternative to powering these better? Perhaps for PC speakers?
     
  7. 04

    04 Guest

    100 watts for each would be plenty.

    You arent going to hurt the speaker by underpowering it or anything.
     
  8. linenoyz

    linenoyz OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2002
    Messages:
    7,626
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Algonquin, IL
    Yeah, as I've noticed from two GM stock sound systems in my cars, I know underpowering is bad. :hs:

    So yeah... what's a cheap way to power these things properly?
     
  9. Section8

    Section8 .

    Joined:
    May 29, 2001
    Messages:
    99,761
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Golden, CO
    Very interesting. I'll have to remember this when I upgrade my system :bigthumb:
     
  10. linenoyz

    linenoyz OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2002
    Messages:
    7,626
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Algonquin, IL
    Duh? :fawk:

    I don't know what's good on a budget. I was hoping for something a little more specific. :p
     
  11. Section8

    Section8 .

    Joined:
    May 29, 2001
    Messages:
    99,761
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Golden, CO
    My reciever does 100w per channel now, but I know my speakers are capable of more. If I want to add an amplifier, can I get one amp that will do all the channels, or do I have to get hard core and get an amp for each channel? I can't really afford the latter :sad2:
     
  12. 04

    04 Guest

    Soundguy, what the fuck is that? :wtf:

    That is totally false, the suspension of a "200 watt" speaker can handle MUCH MUCH MUCH more power than that at higher frequencies, the speaker only increases movement by 50 pecent with a doubling of power anyways assuming its completely linear.

    A speaker's power rating has NOTHING to do with how loud it will get in comparision to a speaker of a different power rating, without knowing other factors such as efficiencyl.

    Distortion is not bad for speakers at all, they think it is the same thing as clean power. When you clip an amplifier, all you gain is increased odd ordered harmonics, until the output is completely clipped, and has a duty cycle of almost 100 percent.

    There IS a benefit to underpowering speakers, you save money, but thats about it. However, it wont hurt the speaker.

    I suggest you read Rane's paper on amplifier clipping and disregard whoever or whatever told you that http://www.rane.com/pdf/note128.pdf
     
  13. 04

    04 Guest

    That is false.

    Speakers die in two ways, either they suffer from mechanical or thermal failure, distortion has NOTHING to do with it.
     
  14. Section8

    Section8 .

    Joined:
    May 29, 2001
    Messages:
    99,761
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Golden, CO
    You guys are confusing the audio newbie :hs:
     
  15. 04

    04 Guest

    I'll make it simple.

    Your 100 watt reciever will work just fine with those JBL monitors (even though it probably doesnt put out 100 watts).

    Unless you turn the amplifier up until it clips, it wont hurt the speaker, provided the speaker can really handle 170 watts.

    Buying a 200 watt amplifier over a 100 watt one will at best give you an increase of 3dB in sound, which is not much at all.
     
  16. CNR

    CNR I come bearing Triominos!

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2001
    Messages:
    2,210
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Texas
    so the only time clipping matters is if one of your components, like the tweeter, has a lower power rating than that of the speaker?
    (provided your amp rating doesn't exceed the speaker rating of course)
     
  17. 04

    04 Guest

    Well here's the problem. A power rating for a speaker is almost always a thermal rating. A thermal rating tells how much power a speaker can handle before it basically melts down. It pretty much stays the same with varying frequency and enclosure design.

    Next comes mechanical power handling. A speaker has to move back and forth to produce sound, and the lower the frequency, the more the speaker has to move. So a speaker that is rated for 1000 watts can handle 1000 watts mechanically speaking at say 200hz without any problems. But try and make the same speaker handle 1000 watts at 20hz in a large sealed enclosure, and you are probably going to drive the speaker past its suspension and/or motor limits.

    Tweeters usually handle much less power than woofers. However, many times they are also more efficient than a woofer as well. So what we can do is use a resistive network (called an L-pad) to bring the efficiency of the tweeter down to that of the woofer so the response sounds flat. In doing so, the power handling of the tweeter goes up, because the resistive network will disapate some (often times most) of the power the tweeter is recieving.

    The reason people say clipping is bad for tweeters is this. When an amplifier clips, basically the waveform that is being clipped has hit a ceiling. It simply does not increase in loudness at the same rate with the other frequencies, because there is no headroom left. However, the higher frequencies are usually not as high in level as the lower ones are. So while the low frequencies basically cannot get any louder, the higher frequencies keep increasing in amplitude. So if you have a 100 watt amplifier, and your speaker is rated for 100 watts, that means that the woofer can handle 100 watts. However, the tweeter may only be able to handle 10 watts. So when you start barely clipping your amplifier, the woofer is getting close to 100 watts, but the tweeter is getting say 10 watts. Lets say you overdrive the amp by 10 decibels (which is not uncommon). At this point, the woofer hasnt got much louder, but the tweeter is up to getting much more power than 10 watts. Its resistive network only blocks some of the power, the tweeter is getting more than its rated power and it blows up.
     
  18. CNR

    CNR I come bearing Triominos!

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2001
    Messages:
    2,210
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Texas
    :cool: i wasn't sure what the speaker rating refered to
     
  19. 04

    04 Guest

    Well, also note that for brief periods of time, a speaker can handle much more than its long term limits.

    For instance, a woofer rated for 300 watts may be able to take 10,000 watts for a fraction of a second, provided the frequency is high enough as not to drive the woofer past its excursion limits.
     
  20. linenoyz

    linenoyz OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2002
    Messages:
    7,626
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Algonquin, IL
    :eek4: Too much information.

    Just answer me this, then. What's good, cheap amp to power these so I can hook it into my computer? I bet UT2K3 would fucking rock with these. :big grin:
     
  21. 04

    04 Guest

    How much do you want to spend?
     
  22. linenoyz

    linenoyz OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2002
    Messages:
    7,626
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Algonquin, IL
    Cheaper the better. Preferrably under $200. I don't know what's realistic.
     
  23. 04

    04 Guest

    Well, did you say you were already using your home reciever? If not, I would use it.

    Otherwise, an inexpensive prosound amplifier would work. http://www.pssl.com/bitemdetail.tpl?eqint_KeyIDdata=34272&UID=2004022614192634

    It costs 70 dollars more than you want to spend though, but puts out a pretty good amount of power.
     
  24. linenoyz

    linenoyz OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2002
    Messages:
    7,626
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Algonquin, IL
    If I use them with my home theater amp, I won't be pushing them too hard. My neighbors wouldn't let me. :hs:

    That amp would be cool for the future, though. Man, I wish I could find the 4th one of those speakers. It's gotta be around here somewhere.
     
  25. 04

    04 Guest

    THE DISTORTION DOES NOT FRY A COIL. Seriously dude, if you actually believe that, there is no point in arguing with you. Anyone who says that and stands behind it clearly does not know what they are talking about. Sorry, thats just how it is. I already told you that an increase in power output is what causes the failure. PLEASE read that Rane paper. If you are truly a prosound guy, you should know that RANE is one of the most respected names in audio. That article has no bullshit in it. If you read the entire article, you WILL agree with me.

    Your quote that refers to a clipped amplifier not moving the loudspeaker corrrectly to get enough ventilation is false. If this were true, an amplifier with double the output power of the clipped amp would destroy the speaker in the exact same amount of time. Think about it this way, how much is your loudspeaker's cone excuring at 200hz, 500hz, 1khz, etc..?????? I guarantee you that it is not enough to make any kind of difference in the thermal dissapation of the speaker.

    No appriciable DC is present at the outputs of a properly functioning amplifier even if it is clipping!! Seriously, if you are going to quote something, please list where you got it from. That too is utter horseshit though. If it were true, a simple capacitor in series with the speaker would NEGATE all the effects of clipping. Clipping wouldnt hurt anything. You have a degree in audio engineering, right? THINK about these things for a minute please before you agree with these quotes.
     

Share This Page