GUN Open carry vs. brandishing

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by RyeLou, Apr 16, 2008.

  1. RyeLou

    RyeLou OT Supporter

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    I'm obviously new to the carrying deal, and I'm sure the answer lies in the details of the law but I'll ask anyhow.

    If you can open carry, why is it such a big deal if the gun peeks out if you're carrying concealed? It just doesn't seem like it makes sense that it would be considered brandishing if you're carrying concealed and it pokes out for a split second, as opposed to just having it in the wide open otherwise.
     
  2. Keesh

    Keesh New Member

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    There are some states in which open carrying is illegal but concealed carry with a permit is fine.

    If you are concealed carrying and live in a state where open carrying is legal there's nothing illegal about accidentally exposing your piece as long you do it in a non threatening manner.

    Yeah, if you get in an argument and you flash it, that's probably brandishing.
     
  3. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    depends a lot on if it peeks out accidentially due to the way the clothing moved (for example jumping) or if you purposely lift your shirt with the intent to intimidate.

    Ultimately it is intent that draws that line for the law.

    Beyond that it's also a personal choice. If you choose to carry concealed you likely want to maintain "surprise" so a wardrobe-malfunction would not be desireable.
     
  4. RyeLou

    RyeLou OT Supporter

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    Maybe the error was in the way it was explained to me. In MI open carry is legal, and concealed has more laws and permits involved. It was explained to me (using this example) if you were at the grocery store and reached for something and it peeked and someone saw and called the cops, the fear/uneasyness that caused them to do so is what constitutes the brandishing, not your intent to cause the emotion.
     
  5. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    utter lie. I can SAY that I was afraid, but that doesn't matter. It's what a PRUDENT person would find REASONABLE. That's a very important part of establishing INTENT.

    It's an un-desireable situation, so you do want to avoid it. However, in that scenario the officer would respond, take their story, confirm that you didn't "brandish" it with intent to intimidate or cause injury, then he would verify you have a CHP, and he would be on his way.
     
  6. mds2004

    mds2004 OT Supporter

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  7. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    Without knowing the context of the argument, and what was said, what body language took place, it's hard to draw a conclusion on that. The charge was probably something like "menacing" which you can do even without a gun being on you.

    for most every-day situations, it is the better option.
     
  8. Keesh

    Keesh New Member

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    Exactly right.
     
  9. RyeLou

    RyeLou OT Supporter

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    This is quoted from the thread from the link:

    That is what I would like to think. I realize the variables are a) other people and b) local laws/authority, which can differ greatly. I think the jist of the other thread is right. If you're not acting weird there shouldn't be a problem.
     
  10. fatmoocow

    fatmoocow bored OT Supporter

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    I think open carry becomes brandishing when you say something to the effect of "see this gun I'm going to shoot you with it" even if you don't actually touch it.
     
  11. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    thats not brandishing, that's menacing in most localities.
     
  12. Furner

    Furner New Member

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    RyeLou, in Michigan, the attorney general has issued an opinion that covers the definition of brandishing. futhermore, no one has ever been charged with brandishing a firearm in Michigan while legally carrying a firearm and not intending to commit an additional crime.
    im looking up the relevant info right now.
     
  13. Furner

    Furner New Member

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    this is from AG opinion # 7101, which is in regards to a reserve peace officer carrying their firearm, and if this can be considered brandishing. However, this opinion will also apply to civilians.
    Michigan law does not define the crime of brandishing, so as it says above, we defer to the dictionary of reference. so unless you are waving it about, it is not brandishing, and while you may not beat the ride, you will certainly beat the charge in this case.
     
  14. RyeLou

    RyeLou OT Supporter

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    Very :coolugh:. Let me know what else you find. Very good to know about what you've found though. Where are you looking?

    It makes most sense to me that if you have your CPL and you're not being an ass hole, even if someone sees it for whatever period of time you should be fine. In most instances someone will probably just assume you're an off-duty cop or something of that nature.
     
  15. RyeLou

    RyeLou OT Supporter

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    Very well put, haha.
     
  16. Furner

    Furner New Member

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    i found that opinion from www.michigan.gov/ag, but i heard about it from a talk show called "Saturday Afternoon Shootout". It is done by some open-carry friendly guys who do discussions and call-ins every other saturday, and podcast the show. its worth checking out, you can also stream it, but their server can be spotty, so i just download the podcast.
    i think if you go here
    http://flinttalkradio.com/podcast/?p=6
    and download the link and open it in itunes it will add the podcast. im not totally sure how i got it in my podcast link, but that is worth a try.
     
  17. Furner

    Furner New Member

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    http://recordings.talkshoe.com/rss16545.xml


    thats the xml link for it, not sure how to add it to itunes. but that is the link. excellent show for anyone, especially those in michigan. the guys that do the show do "open carry meetings" around the state quite often.
     
  18. affende

    affende Resident 4X4 Elitest Prick

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    i open carry my G21 in Va ... only thing people say to me is "are you a cop?"

    i say no and they shrug and walk off.
     
  19. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    Remember that while your actions may be legal, you still might get charged and hassled a bit before the charges are dropped. Carrying an unloaded gun in a fanny pack with a magazine in the pouch ready to be inserted is 100% legal in illinois. Every few years someone gets arrested when carrying in such a fashion, gets to put on some shiny bracelets, enjoys a strip search at the jail, spends some time getting to know some new friends, and then eventually has the charges dropped.
     
  20. Keesh

    Keesh New Member

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    Pics of you in a fanny pack? :naughty:
     
  21. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    audience participation required :naughty:





    :rofl:
     
  22. Keesh

    Keesh New Member

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    :rofl: :rofl:
     
  23. Denich

    Denich New Member

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    i hate you guys :(

    up here in Canadia especially in Ban-tario people call the cops if they see something that even remotely looks like any sort of firearm. A few months ago one of the colleges (that is heavy on media and photography) went on a 3 hour lockdown cuz a teacher saw someone with what looked like a rifle. In the end after they viewed the tapes they realized it was a person with a freaking tripod!!

    Concealed carry is obviously illegal. Some police departments dont even allow their officers to take their firearms home although they are cops 24/7. Anything with a barrel under 105mm (4.14") is prohibited, pistol mags are pinned to 10 rounds, semi-auto rifles are pinned to 5. Argh......:greddy:
     
  24. smartypants

    smartypants New Member

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    If the gun stayed in it's holster, you're not getting hit with brandishing in GA.
     

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