Office IT People: KILL THE PC. SAVE YOURSELVES.

Discussion in 'OT Technology' started by Peyomp, Jan 31, 2007.

  1. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

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  2. Doc Brown

    Doc Brown Don't make me make you my hobby

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    I like that. :cool:

    You could make a pretty inexpensive home network with a few thin desktops and a basic server.
     
  3. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

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    Yeah, I want one rigged up above the shitter, on a swivel.
     
  4. Doc Brown

    Doc Brown Don't make me make you my hobby

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    wtf? :mamoru:
     
  5. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

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    Sos I can pull it round real nice like.
     
  6. Doc Brown

    Doc Brown Don't make me make you my hobby

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    I wasn't asking about what you do with your weener :squint:
     
  7. mace

    mace i don't read

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    can this setup use windows?

    windows embedded with just remote desktop? is that how this works?
     
  8. EvilSS

    EvilSS New Member

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    As someone who actually does this for a living (I'm a consultant for a large Citrix VAR) I have an issue with thin clients vs PC's. My main issue with them is that they cost as much (if not more) than a cheap Dell PC. The hardware may last longer but they tend to get made obsolete before the hardware dies by client upgrades. Plus the management software for most of the brands of thin-clients costs extra.

    Personally, I'm a fan of using cheap PC's as thin clients since they are more flexible.
     
  9. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

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    Citrix stuff is quite expensive. I would not recommend their shite.

    My post was based on Sun's stuff. You buy some $250 thin clients, and a server running solaris. The server includes the software you need to redirect to your Windows Server Terminal Services stuff via Remote Desktop.
     
  10. EvilSS

    EvilSS New Member

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    That's awesome, if you are one of the three people who use Sun based apps every day for everything . Hope you have 100 full to all your drops and all your sites too. Sun LOVES their bandwidth. Sorry, but that just sucks ass. Those used terminals are going to have depreciated clients and probably can't be upgraded or won't be able to in a year or two. The performance will probably be less than stellar as well, especially graphics performance where the older terminals just blow (even terminals need some graphics power). RDP for end users = crap. Full desktops FTL. Printing should be fun too.

    Sorry, but there is a reason that most companies that deploy terminal services for their users spend the extra money on Citrix licenses. They trump pretty much every other solution when it comes to printing, security, bandwidth, and remote access.
     
  11. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

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    You go from the Sun Ray 2 to the Windows Desktop. The end user never interact with the Sun Server. Put in your smart card, and you're at the Windows Server. The graphics are good enough for MS Office, which is all 90% of office workers use. Performance requirements for displaying that haven't increased in a decade. Printing will be the same as always... its remote desktop, integrated into the Sun Ray.

    Forget Citrix. Nobody is talking about Citrix. I agree its too fucking expensive.
     
  12. EvilSS

    EvilSS New Member

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    Again, full desktops FTL. Giving users full desktops just increases the load on the servers, security risks, and management overhead.

    As for the graphics, the demands have increased. Most older terminals don't support 24 or 32 bit color, even though terminal servers today do (24 in 2003, 32 in Longhorn) or high resolutions. Unfortunately application developers often use a 32 bit color palette when they create the GUIs and those colors often end up dithered and looking like crap. As for printing, no it doesn't just work, you have to install the driver on the terminal server, which can cause BSODs when 3rd party drivers are needed (which is often, especially for newer printers).

    Even with Citrix out of the picture a $390 Dell running something like ThinStation (http://thinstation.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/ThIndex) is a better choice than a $250 used thin-client.
     
  13. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

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    Hmmm... I guess I can see it both ways.

    The Sun Ray 2 supports 1920x1200/32-bit color. So color is not a problem.

    I can see how printing could be an issue, but surely there are enterprise grade printers/drivers that don't BSOD? Certified drivers?

    The real savings would come from decreased support. There is nothing to break in a Sun Ray 2. No HD, no fan. If the whole thing breaks, you replace it. Long term warranties are cheap. You've lost no data. And you don't have to worry about spam, trojans, virii, etc. You also don't have to upgrade the terminals as often as PCs.

    Anyway, I think we're using them for POS stations, which is a different ball of wax, but I think they could woop ass for PC replacement too.

    The other benefit is the smart card access control, which is just real fucking neat. Put in the card, get back your session. Wow. Although you might have to login again on a windows system. I dunno.
     
  14. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    I've been testing a Windows RDP solution at my office for people who work out of their homes hundreds of miles away. Basically, each person has a workstation here that is maintained automatically (a central server wasn't an option in this case because of the heavy-duty work we do -- CPU time sharing was gonna be a real pain in the ass), and the remote employees connect to our internal network via VPN and fire up the newest version of Remote Desktop (I think v6.0) and do their digital mapping work that way. It's on us to keep their workstations working, and it's on them to keep their home PCs working, which means each employee's setup is out-of-commission for an hour a month on average.

    I gotta say, RDP6 is a real nice product -- it can translate 32-bit color, font smoothing, and vector graphics through the RDP connection with virtually no increased bandwidth over RDP5. We're all quite happy with it here.

    Oh, and my office is running off a 3Mb/3Mb DSL line.
     
  15. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

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    Thin Clients can't really work for heavy computing. But I think they have just matured enough for regular office work. I would not have bought a Sun Ray. I think I am going to buy Sun Ray 2s. We deploy somewhere and then leave, so the money we'll save on support will be significant compared to a PC. If it breaks, just have them plug in one of the replacements in the supply closet. It doesn't get any better than that. They don't even lose their session when they replace the box. Holy cow.

    They say Sun Ray 2s can now be used over 256k connections. Given the history of the Sun Ray, I'll believe it when I see it.
     
  16. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

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    You know what, I take it back. A Sun Ray 2 can connect directly to a Windows Terminal Server via RDP. RDP is in the Sun Ray. You never need Solaris.

    So for $250 you can have a workstation that will never break, that burns only 4 watts per hour, and that is plug and play in a windows terminal services environment.

    Personally, I think that is a bad ass solution for about 90% of the office employees out there. Pick your printer carefully, and you can save enormous amounts of money.
     
  17. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

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    Those motherfuckers. Its $374 base price. They make you buy a "license" for each Sun Ray 2. It is not optional. So the base price is really $374. They fucking lie.
     
  18. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    Theoretically speaking, it sounds like a nice solution -- IF the cost of the server + concurrent-use licenses + the heavy networking equipment to handle all the employees' RDP sessions ends up costing less.

    Just so you know, a "watt" is a measurement of the rate of power consumption, not a unit of power. Nothing uses n watts-per-hour, they consume power at a rate of n watts. In this case, if you ran one Sun Ray 2 for 8 hours, it would use 32 watt*hours of electricity.

    As I recall, a watt is equal to one Newton-per-second or some other ridiculous and nonsensical formula, but I'm sure someone out there could explain how it's possible to measure energy that way.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2007
  19. 7960

    7960 New Member

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    what comes around, goes around.............. welcome back the 1980s mainframe.
     
  20. keleko

    keleko yes, he is

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    done right, nothing wrong with that
     
  21. keleko

    keleko yes, he is

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    SHIT

    just went over 20k and didn't notice
     
  22. 7960

    7960 New Member

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    I didn't say it was good or bad. I said what comes around goes around.


    I could fix that :hsugh:
     
  23. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

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    I just think they're really fucking cool. I used to have an AT&T dumb terminal and it ROCKED for *nix shell/IRC.

    I am eager to play with these.
     
  24. piratepenguin

    piratepenguin New Member

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    ..thin clients have been going forever, essentially.

    I've always wanted to get some cheap ass computer, for nothing (people throw this excellent hardware away everyday), to setup downstairs. That would be so sweet, for the others in the house so they don't need to take my computer & desk.. and it would be essentially as fast as my own.
     
  25. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

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    1) $950 (which includes bulk discounts) is a hell of alot more than $375 (which is not bulk discount) + $100 for an LCD, and since most users don't use much processor time, you save money overall even if you have to buy PCs.

    2) Keeping unstable windows computers from self destructing employs literally millions of people worldwide in IT support. Having a single system to maintain, as opposed to 1000 which constantly self destruct, saves money. Whats more: cheap crap PCs break. If a Sun Ray 2 breaks, you just replace it and the user has lost nothing, then send the old one back for replacement.

    3) Even with PCs, in a networked environment, people can't work when the file server is down.

    Dumb/Smart terminals is a cycle. At one time dumb terminals were the bomb. This is becoming the case again. I'm not saying they're right for every situation, but if you've got an office full of 50 people doing excel and word all day... its a no brainer.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2007

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