Discussion in 'On Topic' started by phrozenlikwid, Oct 16, 2009.
Seen from SH. I have my thoughts, but what say you AR weirdos?
If I had to critique it, I'd say that first off, any AR that's concerned with a 40MOA circle for CQB probably doesn't care about mil demarcations. Further, that circle doesn't stand out enough to be useful in CQB, I mean, look at that second to last pic.
Pretty much my thoughts..... The ring looked like an afterthought to me.
I think they should drop the posts outside of the "ring", and make the ring itself considerably thicker. No way I could pick that up fast how it is now. The whole thing still looks kind busy to me, but I'm a fan of less being more. Needs to have a more defined aiming point at the low end (huge fucking bright ring + a thicker crosshair might help).
My other bitch, is that it's a 1.5x. On an AR that I would intend to be moving fast and shooting from weird fucking angles, I want eye relief and eyebox friendliness. I think that this is where USO tends to fail. I've played some with their SN3, and it was my biggest bitch. After dealing with Leupys (which "suck" apparently), having to have perfect positioning on the rifle to see anything pisses me the fuck off. I think it would be cool to make it a true 1-6x, big fucking bright reticle, EREK type ele, and a 34mm tube.
I dunno.... just something I was thinking about
It comes across as a "me too" product. While their quality and everything is great, I don't think they really defined a specific, specialized role that they wanted this thing to fit. It tries to do too much, and in the end really doesn't do anything any better than any of the other solutions on the market. 1.5x and the thin circle aren't what you want for CQB, and the rest of the scope doesn't give you anything that any other scope doesn't do.
I don't know why.... but I really *want* them to do well. I just can't get on the USO bandwagon though. I think they are catering to the wrong market unfortunately, and don't have a good direction.
Too bad John Sr. is no longer with us.
Hopefully they get good feedback on it and they listen to the feedback and improve it.
They are kinda a "protected" vendor on SH, which is probably where most of their business comes from. Not that they didn't themselves build up that reputation (they did, from doing a lot for the community, and that board in particular), but now you have all kinds of idiots who would try and crucify you if you did anything besides sackride them.
looks kinda cool, i'm not interested in seeing the price tag.
Yeah, and if they only hear what they want to hear, then they'll end up gone and really it's nobody's fault but theirs. I'd love to see more optics like this that are really good that drive innovation and competition, so I really hope they do well with what they produce.
Since they mentioned CQB or 3 gun I'll chime in. As far as a 3 gun scope the overall size of the scope looks to be a winner. The magnification of 1.5 - 6 seems pretty good too. The recticle is ok, I myself prefer an illuminated aiming point. If you needed a scope for long range shooting for 3 gun I think this could work well. As far as CQB it depends on how your eyes work. Some guys can shoot a strait up crosshair for CQB, mostly they are running IOR scopes. The vast majority are running mod recticle accupoints as there is nothing faster, or some sort of illuminated dot recticle in the center of a crosshair ex meopta.
I don't see too many USO scopes on the line. Those that do have them are on full open guns with dedicated secondary short range sights. Some of it is a pricing thing. If you had the scratch for a $$$ scope people opt for the S&B short dot.
The USO scopes are pretty popular for the sniper and bolt gun matches here but those are 25x scopes
Regardless I'll reserve my final judgement until I look though one at shot show and see how it stacks up with what else is up there.
Was obviously curious to hear what you had to say, being as you are their primary market.
The price point is certainly not cheap, but I don't know if I'd call it horrid. Base is like $1200 or so for that optic (SN4). What's a TR24, $800ish?
I obviously haven't played with one, so this is all empty conjecture from my end. Perhaps my needs are a little different than the open class 3gunner (the flexibility of being able to run two optics really changes up the field IMO). I'm looking for a single optic that can roll on fairly close up stuff, but do better at the 3-400yd line than an Aimpoint or such.
What is your opinion on optic "friendliness" (eye relief, eyebox, FOV) as it pertains to a GP (read, 3gun limited tyoe class structure) optic? To me, that's my big thing, and probably why I have such an affinity for the Leupy 6x's and 3.5x10. So often I think that less is simply more. I just need something fast, easy to see out of, and that will allow me to manipulate crosshairs based on dope. Form factor also plays a large part in my choices, as does weight. Do these things not carry over well into your world, or are their other bullet points you are striving to hit?
I give it an underwhelming "meh"
FFP? Is that why the reticle 'grows'?
Yeah, the reticle scales along with what you see through the optic. The demarcations subtend the same amount at any magnification.
yes. Another thing I'm not hugely a fan of on lower power glass (who is ranging at 1x?).
Does it hurt anything?
Well, I suppose that would depend on how sensitive you are to pain.
I personally don't get into them on lower power stuff because I find them superflous. I think too often you run into the problem of sizing a reticle to work at both low-end, and high end (not being too small on the low, not being too big on the high).
So not "hurtful", but there can be downsides. FWIW, most of the hard core tactical guys are hyping FFP stuff for today's LR matches, and more and more manufacturers are following suit.
The consensus is the tr24 is the current kind of tac class 3 gun scopes. The majority of 3 gun is short range with enough long range to ruin your day if you CHS ("can't hit shit"). Typically your not dialing dope during a course of fire so your depending heaviliy on hold over. The TR24 is kind of a specilized 3 gun or CQB- mid distance scope.
Besides the various accupoints I like the Nightforce NXS 2.5-10 x 32 Compact, and the elcan spector dr-6x
The nightforce is also the right size and weight, good range of magnification for open class but not enough low end as a single optic. I seriously considering this scope for next season.
The elcan spector is my choice if I could only have one optic. True 1x for short range, flip a lever to get 6x for long range. The scope is heavy and it's expensive at 2k but it's armored like a acog. Guess it would make a good fighting gun scope.
As far as eye relief, paralex etc that is important. With dynamic shooting where you have to use all sorts of odd positions from prone to big leans around baricades, to shooting on the move you need something that is very forgiving.
For the money for something like what I go the accupoint has it on lock. It just hard to compete with how much scope they give you for the money.
I like FFP on low power scopes, gives you more options. I would love if my scope was ffp as I would be able to use mils at 6x if I wanted to as opposed to always having to use 9x if I needed mils for holds or wind calls.
My ideal scope would be 1x to 10x. At 1x all you would have is a 8 moa dot, at 2x or higher the recticle changes to a simple mil dot cross hair, ffp, with a illuminated 1 moa center.
I was playing with one of those NF's at a store a little while ago (they had it mocked up on a rifle). I liked it a lot, but it too suffered from the standard NF "problem" of having an eyebox that isn't as friendly as I'd like. Maybe I'm just unrealistic from having used so many fixed scopes, or maybe Leupy is really just that good. I dunno. To me, thats the FIRST thing I notice when trying out new glass.
I feel ya about the triji. Haven't heard anyone yet say that they AREN"T the shit . I like the looks of them quite a bit - simple and no bullshit. From talking to a part they are about as easy to use as anything going, which would excite me greatly.
take a look at the elcan spector. It only has two powers 1x and 6x. So it is going to feel a lot more like your fixed power scope.