new to domestics, want a project car

Discussion in 'OT Driven' started by ices, Mar 1, 2005.

  1. ices

    ices New Member

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    hello everyone, i am new with domestics so please bare with me...

    i was thinking about getting a 94/95 pontiac v8 for a project car. however, i'm kinda confused. there are so many terms that seem to carry over from different models. what do all these mean? firebird, formula, transam. i've seen a firebird, a firebird formula, a transam formula. i figured this would be a good way to learn domestics. this car is definately not going to be my daily driver (i have an accord for that). is there anything else i need to know? certain years to stay away from, what's good, what's bad? what are your thoughts on using one of these cars for a project car.
     
  2. Freak

    Freak Guest

    If you want an LT1 get a 95-97. 95 seems to be the best year.

    I had a 95 Z28 for 3 years.Was my DD for about 2 of them. Never really gave me any problems. I had mine running high 12s w/drag springs, CAI, shorty headers, cat-back, cut-out & a couple other minor things not worth mentioning.

    If you're looking for bang for your buck get a Mustang 5.0.

    PM me if you need any ifno or help with cars you want to look at to possibly buy.
     
  3. ices

    ices New Member

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    i was thinking the older 5.0's, but i like the idea of 5.7l. more potential (feel free to prove me wrong if i am). what is the difference between all the formula's, transams, and firebirds? i just want to understand the difference so i can start doing my own research. i look on car pages and i get thouroughly confused. a firebird, a firebird transam, or a transam itself. what's the difference? thanks for the quick response though, i'll probably do a few weeks more worth of researching and then look into buying.
     
  4. Fareo

    Fareo New Member

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    Firebird = V6, cheepest
    Formula = V8, looks like a V6 but a, cheeper
    Trans Am = V8, best looking best bang for buck
    Trans Am WS6 = V8, fastest, most expensive

    '93-'97 LT1 V8 275hp(factory rated) 98-02 LS1 V8 305hp(factory rated)

    93-02 you could also get the T56 6 speed trans

    if your going to get one id say to get a LS1 car and if you can aford it get a 01 or 02 becasue the have the LS6 intake and so on. if not just make sure you get a 6 speed casue ive driven both and the auto sucks (gearing).

    i was going to get a LS1 Trans Am but desided to get another truck casue i need a bed.. but heres some info i dug up on the car. i stated this forum on LS1.com check it out.

    http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=547065
     
  5. 5secstrtcar

    5secstrtcar Spot you 10, give you the move and still hand you

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    Get a fox Mustang.
     
  6. 5secstrtcar

    5secstrtcar Spot you 10, give you the move and still hand you

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  7. butthair

    butthair New Member

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    I would say go with a third gen Formula or TA(87-92) I think are the best years. The L98 is a lot easier to work on than a LT1. If you dont know a lot about cars, you should look to get something older, because the newer cars are a lot harder to mod. If you like the way a third gen Firebird looks, go with that, they are pretty easy to mod and pretty cheap. A few of my friends have some fast third gens, on is in the low 11s and doesnt have much money in the car, and the other has a turbo on his car, looking to make 500+RWHP. If you do get one, make sure its a 350 TPI, otherwise its not worth getting.
     
  8. Cue-Ball

    Cue-Ball I hate you, Milkman Dan

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    Not to dissuade you from getting a Pontiac, but you're talking about buying a car that's 10+ years old. Since this is the case, consider the fact that you may end up rebuilding or replacing the engine in whatever car you buy. In the case of the 5.0 you could easily stroke the 302 (331 and 347 kits are popular now) or swap for a 351 block. So, the cubic inches you get with the car might not be how many you have when all is said and done.

    Not saying that you WILL have to rebuild the engine - just that you MAY decide to. Just something to think about if cubic inches is the deciding factor for you.
     
  9. ices

    ices New Member

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    that's a very good point. i never considered that because i heard that LT-1's were a very reliable motor capable of 200K if maintained properly. is there any site you could point me to that explains the stroking process of the stock 5.0? also, a 351 block is larger than the 302 block, so wouldn't swapping it involve complications in other components such as the radiator?

    what are the differences (besides higher compression ratio) between a LT1 and L98. is an LT1 or LS1 swap possible? how is the L98 easier to work on than an LT1.

    also, what makes the 4th gen firebirds so hard to work on. is it that the engine bay is cramped, or is the engine itself complicated?

    more input would be greatly appreciated. the 5.0 is looking much more appealing now, as it would be cheaper. what is the preferred year for the mustang? how much would it cost to stroke the 302 to 331 or 347? how about for a new LT-1?

    the LT-1 still looks the most favorable in terms of performance. it seems the easiest to get the most power. however, how cramped exactly is the engine bay?
    the mustang requires more work to get equal power, however i like the idea of how accessible everything is.

    thanks a lot to any replies! i want to be completely informed before i drop my money on a learning/project car
     
  10. butthair

    butthair New Member

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    A third gen firebird is a lot easier to work on because the LS1 and LT1 are both back deep into the engine bay. I know that an LS1 swap is very possible for the 3rd gen but it will cost you quite a bit of money. It is probably just as easy to get HP from a L98 to a 5.0 Mustang, but you should probably go by what car you like better. Im not a fan of the LT1, but Ive seen one go low 10s on completely stock suspention, with a nitrous built LT1. My friend has a 3rd gen camaro that he built a L98 block and now its a 383 stroker motor, and he has less money into his car than another guy I know with a late 80s early 90s 5.0 mustang and still runs better 1/4 mile times. The LT1 is a lot different than the L98, totally different engine(intake, cam specs, ect.) If it was me I would go with a 3rd gen over a 5.0 mustang, but you just have to go with what car you like better. If your really fixed on the LT1 firebird, they can be made fast, maybe not as cheap or as easy.
     
  11. Freak

    Freak Guest

    How?


    WRONG!! 93-95 275hp 96-97 285hp

    99+ LS6 intake or not. That should not be a buy or not buy factor. Autos suck? LOL :rolleyes:
     
  12. Freak

    Freak Guest

    Both the 5.0 & LT1 have HUGE potential. I have owned both. It's personal preference really. 5.0 is much easier to work on & cheaper to mod though.
     
  13. Freak

    Freak Guest

    L98 > LT1 > LS1

    Don't bother w/the L98.
     
  14. butthair

    butthair New Member

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    Ive seen a stock block L98 with stock crank push over 600 RWHP. Probably the most underestimated motor.
     
  15. Freak

    Freak Guest

    I am not saying they can't be fast. Plenty are, but for the $ you're better off with a 5.0, LT1 or LS1
     
  16. butthair

    butthair New Member

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    I disagree, L98s are just as cheap to mod as 5.0s and cheaper than LT1s and LS1s. My friend has a turbo L98 and another frined has a turbo LS1, and the L98 has less money into it and makes 150 more HP than the LS1. Another friend has a Stroker 383 from a L98 block and he was making more hp and running lower 1/4 mile times than someone he knew who had a 5.0 mustang for less money. L98s are pretty cheap to get power out of, you just need to know how to do it.
     
  17. Cue-Ball

    Cue-Ball I hate you, Milkman Dan

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    Stroking a 302 is no different than stroking any other engine. You put in a different crank, rods, pistons and that's basically the essence of it. here's a great article on a 331 build: http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2002/04/331/index.shtml

    The LT1 and the 5.0 are both capable of going for a LONG time without needing a rebuild. Both of the 5.0s i've owned have made it well past 100K miles and still had great compression and oil pressure. Ditto for the LT1/LS1 guys i know. That said, if you're going to mod the engine, you're most likely going to end up rebuilding it sooner or later. Most people don't like the idea of throwing $1000 heads onto a stock 100K mile short block.

    The 351 block is slightly wider and taller than the 302 block, but they both use a lot of the same hardware. The heads are interchangeable and most headers will fit both. The biggest difference between the two is the lower intake for the 351 is slightly wider and the 351 uses a different weight balance. There are some changes that will need to be made, but nothing drastic. The water pump, radiator, heads, etc. all swap back and forth. Here's an article: http://www.mustang50magazine.com/techarticles/18818/

    Either engine is great. I think the main deciding factor for most people is which exterior/interior they like better as both engines can make power and last a long time. I guess it comes down to whether you're a Ford guy or a GM guy.
     
  18. 5secstrtcar

    5secstrtcar Spot you 10, give you the move and still hand you

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    I'll sell you my two coupes for 7k.
     
  19. ices

    ices New Member

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  20. SugarRay81

    SugarRay81 I got the Unbeatable option

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    Fox Body mustangs have proven to be the easiest, and least expensive to make fast in the straightline. Get a good condition roller for ~500, good condition 89-93 motor, auto or manual tranny ( your preference) spray the world at it on some slicks, and you have yourself an instant low 12 sec car for ~2500
     
  21. TrueBlueSnake

    TrueBlueSnake New Member

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    uh, no. the formula's faster b/c it's lighter and also cheaper, I'd say the Formula is the best bang for the buck
     
  22. Jesse_Boyer

    Jesse_Boyer New Member

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    wasn't it 93-95 = 265, 96-97 = 275
     
  23. NetChemica

    NetChemica OT Supporter

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    Nope, the 93's started with 275, and in 96 they upped it to 285.
     
  24. NetChemica

    NetChemica OT Supporter

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    [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Year/Make/Model:[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1994 PONTIAC FIREBIRD FORM/TRANS AM/GT
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    [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Body Style:[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]HATCHBACK 2 DR[/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Engine:[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]5.7L V8 OHV MPI[/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Fuel:[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]GASOLINE[/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Driveline:[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]REAR WHEEL DRIVE[/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Manufactured in:[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]CANADA[/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Safety Equipment:[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]4 wheel ABS, Dual front air bags/active (manual) belts[/font]
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    [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Ownership History: [/font] [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] CARFAX estimates that this 1994 PONTIAC FIREBIRD FORM/TRANS AM/GT (2G2FV22P8R2218866) had 1 owner(s). CARFAX analyzed this vehicle's title history and other supporting events to identify potential ownership transfers. In compliance with the U.S. privacy laws, CARFAX does not collect or report owner names or addresses. [/font]
    [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Estimated Owners:[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Date:[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Location:[/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1st owner [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]02/09/1994[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Maryland[/font]
    [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]CARFAX AdvisorTM
    The cost of ownership varies by vehicle. Go to Edmunds.com to check the recommended service schedule and estimated costs for this vehicle.

    [/font]
    [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Types of Owners: [/font] [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] This 1994 PONTIAC FIREBIRD FORM/TRANS AM/GT (2G2FV22P8R2218866) was originally registered as a Personal Vehicle. [/font]
    [​IMG] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Personal Use Registration Reported [/font][​IMG] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] No Fleet Registration Reported [/font] [​IMG] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] No Lease Registration Reported [/font][​IMG] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] No Commercial Registration Reported [/font] [​IMG] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] No Rental Registration Reported [/font][​IMG] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] No Non-Profit Registration Reported [/font] [​IMG] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] No Taxi Registration Reported [/font][​IMG] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] No Built to Non U.S. Standards Record Reported [/font]
    [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Do you have information about how this vehicle was used or driven? Tell us what you know.[/font]
    [font=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]Register FREE Guarantee | CARFAX Help Center[/font]

    [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][​IMG] [/font]
    [​IMG] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]PONTIAC does not report recall information for specific vehicles to CARFAX. [/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Go to the CARFAX SAFETY & RELIABILITY REPORT for recalls issued by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration for the 1994 PONTIAC FIREBIRD FORM/TRANS AM/GT. You can also contact an authorized dealership or PONTIAC to find out if this 1994 PONTIAC FIREBIRD FORM/TRANS AM/GT (2G2FV22P8R2218866) still has recalls that require repair. [/font]
    [font=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]Register FREE Guarantee | CARFAX Help Center[/font]

    [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][​IMG] [/font] [​IMG] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] CARFAX cannot calculate the remaining coverage for this 1994 PONTIAC FIREBIRD FORM/TRANS AM/GT (2G2FV22P8R2218866) because no original manufacturer warranty information was reported to CARFAX by its source. [/font]
    [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Estimated start date of warranty: [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]02/09/1994[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Last reading reported on 08/09/1996: [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]36,500 miles[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Today's Date: [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]March 4, 2005[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font]
    [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Type of Coverage: [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Original Warranty: [/font]
    [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Basic[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] No data reported to CARFAX [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Drivetrain[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] No data reported to CARFAX [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Emissions[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] No data reported to CARFAX [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Corrosion[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] No data reported to CARFAX [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Transferable[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] No data reported to CARFAX [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Roadside Assistance[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] No data reported to CARFAX [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Safety Belt & Inflatable Restraint[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] No data reported to CARFAX [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Specific Components[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] No data reported to CARFAX [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font]

    [​IMG][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] CARFAX Warranty Check provides an estimate of this vehicle's remaining warranty coverage. It does not take into account some vehicle history events. For example, major accidents resulting in Salvage or Junk titles that may void the original manufacturer warranty or ownership transfers that may decrease warranty coverage. This warranty information is only valid for vehicles manufactured for sale in the US. Complete warranty coverage information is available for this vehicle at the PONTIAC web site. [/font]

    [font=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]Register FREE Guarantee | CARFAX Help Center[/font]

    [​IMG]
    [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][​IMG] [/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] CARFAX searched more than 3 billion records from over 5,300 sources and found 3 record(s) for this 1994 PONTIAC FIREBIRD FORM/TRANS AM/GT (2G2FV22P8R2218866). [/font]
    [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Date:
    [/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Mileage Reading:
    [/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Source:
    [/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] General Comments:
    [/font] [​IMG] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]02/09/1994[/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]5[/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Maryland
    Motor Vehicle Dept.
    Potomac, MD
    Title #23235409
    [/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Title or registration issued
    First owner reported
    Loan or lien reported
    [/font] [​IMG] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]02/15/1994[/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Maryland
    Motor Vehicle Dept.
    Potomac, MD
    [/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Registered as
    personal vehicle
    [/font] [​IMG] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]08/09/1996[/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]36,500[/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Maryland
    Motor Vehicle Dept.
    Chestertown, MD
    Title #25550350
    [/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Title or registration issued[/font]
     
  25. ices

    ices New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2005
    Messages:
    680
    Likes Received:
    0
    wow, that was quick. thanks a lot!!! woo, i'm test driving the car tomorrow, and since it's 1.5 hours away, if i like it i'm buying it. so far the price is at 5200, down from 6000, and i'll try to bargain it to 5000. does anyone have any more thoughts on this? what should i look for, am i getting a good price? etc.. you all have been a great help!
     

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