new passat.

Discussion in 'OT Driven' started by zmiller91, Jan 14, 2008.

  1. zmiller91

    zmiller91 New Member

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  2. Sirius

    Sirius OT Supporter

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    sexayyyyyyyyyyy

    [​IMG]

    looks better than an S class
     
  3. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    It looks nice. I've heard some troubling things about the coolant systems and electronic pushbutton handbrakes (WTF??) in the current model, though.

    This is the problem with products designed in socialist countries. Everybody's gotta have a job, so people get employed to do totally useless shit sometimes. The restyle looks great, but what's the point of an electronic handbrake again? Isn't the point of a cable-operated handbrake so you can stop the car even if nothing else works? Doesn't making it electronic and making it use the hydraulic disc calipers kinda totally fuck up that concept?

    Doesn't it?
     
  4. Nakier

    Nakier Führer of Fun

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    its a privately owned company :uh:
     
  5. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    No it isn't. The German government owns a large percentage of its shares. Porsche owns a majority stake in it now, but Volkswagen is still subject to the employment laws of the country its headquarters resides in.
     
  6. Sirius

    Sirius OT Supporter

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    :)

    :ugh2:
    No DSG standard for NA?:nono:
     
  7. zmiller91

    zmiller91 New Member

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    for some reason, i think the leading auto producer in europe knows what they are doing...
     
  8. DrDickAction

    DrDickAction She needs more of ze punishment!

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    So American cars are superior?

    And is Japan as a country really any less socialist than Germany?

    :ugh:

    edit: And russia is about as free market as you can get....0 labor or environmental laws, nothing a company can't do without a bribe....you really wanna buy a Lada?
     
  9. Virality

    Virality New Member

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    Theres no cable to snap or seize...and should your brakes completely fail, pressing the button will cause ABS to kick in full force(yes at all four wheels....unlike your cable operated e-brake) until you stop, iirc....and then the parking brake will engage of course.

    Also, theres a motor on the calipers that mechanically operates the caliper piston...

    Don't quote me on that, but I'm pretty sure thats how it works.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2008
  10. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    I used to say the same thing when I was new to VWs. Some of their fuckups are intentional, to keep people coming back for service, and some of their fuckups are just plain overengineering.

    As for Virality's explanation regarding the pushbutton e-brake...what are you supposed to do if you have a brake fluid leak? The whole fucking point of a cable e-brake is so it's a totally separate system. If there's no fluid, the hydraulics won't work, and it doesn't matter how you try to use the disc calipers because you're not going to stop for shit. They've taken a perfectly functional safety system and turned it into a convenience for people who don't know how to drive stickshift, and in the process they've made the car less safe than it used to be.
     
  11. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    Japan is far less socialist than Germany. There's no FCC, there's no FDA, there's no EPA, there's no zoning board, there's barely any healthcare regulation...the reason why their country still works without all that shit is because they happen to believe it's their responsibility to do what they do as well as they can. There's nothing stopping companies in Japan from laying off half their workforce if they need to do that, they're just of the mindset that they'll try to keep people employed through pay cuts if they possibly can.

    In Germany, on the other hand, if you don't have a job the government will find one for you, and discourage your employer from laying you off unless you're totally incompetent. They can't force you to work, and they can't force your employer to keep you employed, but they're not an at-will economy like the USA is where you can fire anyone for any reason or no reason, with or without warning.

    - - -

    GM is making progress. That's all I'll say on its behalf.
     
  12. Virality

    Virality New Member

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    I don't know much about brake systems...but the motor wouldnt just be able to clamp the pads to the disc?

    I'm pretty sure VeeDub thought of every possible worst case scenario before they just put the system into the car....and for whats its worth, it IS a parking brake(hence the P on the button), which is its actual job, and I hear it does it pretty well.
     
  13. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    Theoretically, if the motor is built into the brake caliper and can operate the caliper pistons via jackscrew or some similar mechanism, then yes, it could still operate even if the hydraulics fail. As far as I know, though, it's just a motorized hydraulic pump.

    Even if it were still a mechanical system, a pushbutton is the worst way to present an interface to the driver. If you're pulling up to a stoplight and you realize your brakes don't work, you need to stop as fast as possible. If you're driving on the highway and you realize your brakes don't work, you need to slow down gradually unless you want to get donkeypunched by the 18-wheeler behind you. A lever would still be a better interface than a pushbutton, because a lever would give the driver control over how hard they're stopping.

    However they do it, they still need to give drivers control over what happens.

    Anyway, I wasn't trying to be an asshole towards you; I just feel very strongly that it was the wrong move.
     
  14. DrDickAction

    DrDickAction She needs more of ze punishment!

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    but Mitsubishi and suzuki make terribly unreliable cars.

    More about the management of the manufacturer and not so much about the society.
     
  15. Virality

    Virality New Member

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    Fixed.

    Mitsubishi does not, infact, make "terribly unreliable cars." This isn't the 90s.
     
  16. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    We weren't talking about specific manufacturers. We were talking about the socioeconomic environments they operate in.
     
  17. zmiller91

    zmiller91 New Member

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    once again, i think vw knows what they re doing.
     
  18. DrDickAction

    DrDickAction She needs more of ze punishment!

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    Hard to make broad generalizations with only 20 or so worldwide examples. A socioeconomic environment can obviously make harder for a company to be profitable, but I maintain that it's management that lets quality go to crap...toyota could (and probably has) set up a plant in Bavaria and have toyota quality under german law with german labor.
     
  19. Michael_Star

    Michael_Star New Member

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    Pssh, of course they don't know what they are doing. I mean, how long have they been in business? Less than 100 years? How could they have all the infinite wisdom of the 20-something years of deusexaethera?
     
  20. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    Look buddy, I own a goddamn Passat. I know a bunch of other people who own them. It would be one thing if I couldn't come up with a valid explanation for why my interference engine has a timing belt instead of a timing chain, or why rubber hoses run directly over the exhaust manifold, or why the front suspension is built so the slightest amount of wear on the ball joints makes the car feel shaky and unstable at high speed -- but when a few hundred people also can't come up with an adequate explanation, then I'm confident VW fucked up. Speaking specifically about the pushbutton e-brake, I don't know a single person who likes it, and I know several people who started disliking it when the switch failed and caused their brakes to lock up on the highway, causing accidents.

    See, what you're neglecting to consider is it's MY preferences that they're obligated to satisfy if VW wants to sell me a car, NOT their preferences. If I (or anybody) can't comprehend why something works the way it does, and especially if I can see glaring flaws in the way it works vs. the way I want it to work, then they didn't build it right.
     
  21. Sirius

    Sirius OT Supporter

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    so sell your passat instead of bitching about it. You give a bad name to VW owners.
     
  22. Michael_Star

    Michael_Star New Member

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    Well, you bought it to begin with, also, Im sure they hired random people off the street to design and engineer the car, which is why you can do a better job. But in the end, the accounting department will take every idea you come up with and say it isn't "cost effective" and then proceed to buy cheap parts from China.
     
  23. Mjolnir

    Mjolnir WHM6D > *

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    I'll "dawt" this.

    I saw too many problems with the 745i braking system to trust that shit.

    If it ain't broke, don't fix it, and a separate cable operated system wasn't broke.
     
  24. art_VW_shark

    art_VW_shark OT Supporter

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    I'll agree with the sentiments regarding totally automated e-brake.
     
  25. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    That just doesn't make any sense. I fixed up my car and then I modded it. It's never once broken down. Other owners have had to have their engines replaced because they thought they really could go 10,000 miles on an oil change, or 100,000 miles on a timing belt. And I'm the one giving VW owners a bad name?

    In any event, I listed my grievances to prove that VW doesn't always do the best thing for their customers, not to elicit pity from you. If I wanted to sell my car, I would.
     

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