needed: coders, web developers, graphic designers, database specialists

Discussion in 'OT Technology' started by Kewlb, Jul 27, 2006.

  1. Kewlb

    Kewlb New Member

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    Hey Everyone,

    I am currently looking for two individuals. I need an advanced graphic developer who can also handle web design / html design as well as flash design & flash programming (shockwave would be a plus but certainly not needed or required).

    I am also in need of a programmer and database engineer. I need this individual to know VB, Classic ASP, and VB.NET. I also need this individual to know the inner workings of SQL (MS SQL Server 2000 / 2003) and how to write advanced queries, stored procedures, jobs, and triggers.

    I am in need of both of these types of individuals for a new web based turn based strategy game that my company is starting to produce. The project will require around 2 hours on average a day to be put forth to it (around 10 hours a week).

    I can work out different compensation packages for this. I am willing to offer an hourly rate (due to how much work needs to be done I can not afford more then $15/hr max right now since it would be cheaper then that to sub contract it out via rentacoder.com), a per task rate (I assign you a task and a fixed price paid per task. The average task would take around 3-5 hours / $50 or up per task), and or part ownership in the new company that is being formed (can offer each position 25% ownership in the new company being formed which means you own 25% of the companies net profits as well as 25% of all company assets (servers, real estate, etc..).

    To give you a bit of background the parent company (the company I own) we are called MDP Enterprises, LLC which was formed as an LLC in Delaware. We own and operate a network of web forums dedicated to online poker and gambling. We have been in operation for close to three years (2 years if you count when we formed the LLC) and see an average gross profit of $200,000+ USD per year.

    We started about three years ago hosting servers on our own cable connection and I wrote all the code for the website and its features myself. We eventually grew and started to make a profit and now have everything co-located with a 3-server SQL cluster, two clustered web servers, and an application server. We are now trying to spend some of the money we have saved up for other ventures (we do REI (real estate investing) with some of the spare funds) and we are now going to attempt to break into the online web based gaming industry.

    If you are interested in being part of this project and or want more details post in this thread and send me an e-mail with your resume attached to [email protected].

    - Brian
     
  2. kingtoad

    kingtoad OT Supporter

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    $15 an hour, huh? :hsugh:
     
  3. Ham Sammich

    Ham Sammich New Member

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    Yeah you make $200,000 a year PROFIT and you can only afford $15 an hour. :ugh:
     
  4. skelm

    skelm New Member

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    heh... Won't get the skill without paying the money... Typical business man that doesn't understand the programming world...
     
  5. Kewlb

    Kewlb New Member

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    '

    well some high school or college kids may enjoy making $15/hr in their spare time. I am still a business man and if I can sub something out for cheaper on rentacoder then I can not justify paying more to my business partners.

    Please note that I also offered 25% (for each position) ownership in the company which after the individual knows about what game(s) (yes, its more then one) we are working on they will realize the potential profit.

    Lets just say that one of them has the potential to make fantasy football / baseball as we currently know it obsolete.
     
  6. Kewlb

    Kewlb New Member

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    lol, I programmed everything for my business. I am also a network engineer that has: A+, CCA, CCEA, MCSA, MCSE, CCNA, CCNP, CCVP, CCIE (Routing & Switching and soon voice (failed my last attempt but hope to come through with this next one in 2 months at RTP)

    I know the programming world quite well and I offered several methods of compensation.. I think just about any college kid would like to make $15/hr or so for a few hours of their spare dorm room time. When I was in college I put in at least 3-4 hours a days worth of coding into MUDS and some other GNU projects where I never got paid a cent for.
     
  7. D1G1T4L

    D1G1T4L Active Member

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    i doubt you'll find anyone and if you will they won't have the skillset needed to do what you need.
    "I need an advanced graphic developer who can also handle web design / html design as well as flash design & flash programming (shockwave would be a plus but certainly not needed or required). I need an advanced graphic developer who can also handle web design / html design as well as flash design & flash programming (shockwave would be a plus but certainly not needed or required)." That's not 15 dollars an hour. Check out the pay rates for senior programmers/graphic developers or whatever you are looking for and then make an offer.

    25 percent ownership? that's not a bad deal i guess but who says the company will make profit? You'll have to go through a lot of paperwork + money for a lawyer as well (to make sure all papers are legit etc)
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2006
  8. kingtoad

    kingtoad OT Supporter

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    You're right. College kids would code for $15/hour. But I can tell you know, it won't exactly be the most dependable code. :hs: None the less... you will find someone.
     
  9. CyberBullets

    CyberBullets I reach to the sky, and call out your name. If I c

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    id code for $15 an hour, but i would make sure whoever tried to maintain it wouldnt be able to.
     
  10. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

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    $15/hr x 40hrs/week = $600, * 4 weeks = $2400.

    You can get an Indian for that. Not an American. You're looking to pay outsourcing rates... so just go ahead and outsource.

    I do the work you're describing. Know what I bill at? At least $100 an hour. That rate being the bulk discount. And thats pretty normal. You're offering 15% of the normal rate. Can't get that in the first world. Try the second.

    www.objectorb.com
    www.itellix.com

    Call them. They can offer you guys for around $3K a month full time, and that includes everything: computers, network connection, etc. Much better to pay an Indian a living wage than to try to pay an American a substandard one. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2006
  11. Cthalupa

    Cthalupa New Member

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    You do realize that the people you'll get $15/hr from on rentacoder are Indian, correct? Contracting with them on rentacoder will cost about the same as if you found a respectible outsourcing organization, and most likely a lot less reliable.
     
  12. Fase

    Fase Your Face, In A Pickle Jar.

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    I code for $10/h but I'm slow haha
     
  13. Slid.

    Slid. I'm a guy.

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    I honestly don't see anything wrong with his offer. He's offering you a 1/4 share of profits in a company which you know nothing about. Two years from now a 1/4 share could be $50-100k a year and here you are crying about a $15/hr starting rate. Sure, you could come out of this with little more than a few hundred dollars but there is a chance, like any other business, that you could be sitting pretty in a few years.

    He should have made a note with his post that the closed-minded and non-entrepreneuristic (my new word) programmers need not apply.

    I'd gladly take the job if there was a slot for a PHP programmer :)
     
  14. Bruticus

    Bruticus half dead OT Supporter

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    If I had the time at the moment I'd take it, but I don't. Sure the wages are poor (unless the part ownership took off of course) but it's also an addon to your resume for only 10 hours of work a week or so.
     
  15. Kewlb

    Kewlb New Member

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    We already have a lawyer on retainer as well as a CPA. The way it would work is MDP Enterprises, LLC would own 50% of the company and the other 2 individuals would own the other 50% of the LLC. We (MDP Enterprises, LLC) will float the bill for any expenses that arise and we already have $10,000 set aside for advertising and promotions.

    As far as the people telling me we get people from india on rentacoder -- I know this -- I have spent at least $40,000 so far on rentacoder and have gotten a lot for my money thus far -- I just prefer to keep it in the USA if at all possible.
     
  16. Bruticus

    Bruticus half dead OT Supporter

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    That's a lot of cash ... wouldn't it have been better to hire even one very good programmer for 6 months?
     
  17. hsmith

    hsmith OT Supporter

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    :rofl: no one i know would work for $15 hr and a "possible" 25% share in profits. no one dependable that is.

    you'd be looking at $130/hr to get someone who is worth a shit contracted out
     
  18. Kewlb

    Kewlb New Member

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    not really.. we already have myself and my partner who are already talented programmers and there is not much that either of us can not handle. The coder we get will mainly be writing SQL stored procedures and or "cleaning up" code, adding simple error checking, form checking, etc.. there is nothing complicated at all that the coder is really required to do (with the exception of some stored procedures) (I said ASP.NET, etc.. but I doubt the coder will ever use it.. everything we do right now is in Classic ASP).

    I would rather use the money for marketing to ensure the game has users and is profitable. I have never had a web venture I participated in that was not profitable and I am not going to start now.

    I am also surprised at some of the responses of "you will never find anyone quality like this" acting like some college / high school coders are extremely inept; however I have found quite the opposite. They are sometimes unreliable, but the code quality I usually get from them is usually on par with the same I would pay $60/hr+ for an individual with a degree, etc..
     
  19. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

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    It is entirely possible you don't know good code when you see it. But regardless, I honestly do feel that you would get better value by contacting one of the organizations I listed. You could get someone full time. $40K would buy you more than a man year from a degreed guy with 3-5 years experience. And if you liked him, you could eventually hire him.
     
  20. Kewlb

    Kewlb New Member

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    Why would I need someone full time? What I need accomplished can be done in under 1-2 month(s) of full time work and about 3 months of part time work (which is my target goal). This leaves 3 programmers writing code for something that will take less then 50,000 or so lines of code in total not to mention that a lot of the code can be reused in other functions.

    I am not trying to say that your idea is a bad one, it just does not fit in with what I feel is required for this given project.
     
  21. SLED

    SLED build an idiot proof device and someone else will

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    shit. i charged $75/hr when i was in college 6yrs ago. I made $15/hr as a tele-sales associate :rofl:
     
  22. SLED

    SLED build an idiot proof device and someone else will

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    You will get what you pay for. As a business person, I would be freaked out to think what I would get from a person at $15/hr. Are you kidding me?
     
  23. EagerZeroedThick

    EagerZeroedThick New Member

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    how bad would i have to do for you to fire me?
     
  24. Kewlb

    Kewlb New Member

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    the main attraction should have been the 25% ownership.

    If you are not interested.. then you are not interested.. no big deal; what seems like a bad deal to you may not be to someone else.

    Some of the largest web companies started as people offering coding services for a percentage ownership in said company without any up front payments (google, myspace, digg, slashdot just to name a few -- now sure all these sites spend tons of money on staff -- but each one -- when they first started ---- were started by a group of individuals who provided said services for free and in return obtained part ownership in said company). In our case we already have a revenue stream from which to tap into for advertising and marketing so we are not even starting from scratch.

    but anyway.. who knows.. maybe our idea will not make a single cent so why take the risk. if this is not your cup of tea so be it.
     
  25. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

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    You can hire someone for 2 months at an outsourcing firm. They bill by the man month. Get it?
     

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