My new favorite accessory.

Discussion in 'OT Technology' started by deusexaethera, Jun 17, 2006.

  1. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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  2. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    Mostly just for astethics. Not at all neccessary.
     
  3. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    Necessary for short-term operation, no. For long-term longevity, yes. I attached one to this one unsettlingly-hot IC on the mainboard, and when I went back and touch-tested the temperature of the new heatsink to make sure it was conducting, it burned me instantly. Is that hot enough for ya?
     
  4. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    improper cooling in your "$30 antec" that you love so much.

    I build Intel Xeon servers that don't have problems, and they don't use those. My primary workstation is a Prescott 3.6GHz that runs 44C and is virtually silent, with no problems.

    Those heatsinks are useless. They are there for looks only. Proper cooling is the real solution you must seek.
     
  5. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    No mere fan is going to cool an anonymous little IC stuck on the mainboard next to the RAM cards, which tower over it and block the airflow. I needed to extract the heat into something that could generate some convection, and this does the job. It also equalizes the temperature across the IC, in case there's only a few circuits in one spot that are making most of the heat.

    I don't have an Antec case, and I certainly don't have a stock case. I might have accepted your statement that the heatsinks are useless, were it not for the fact that they are indeed getting hotter than hell, which tells me there's plenty of heat being conducted into them. Whether that heat is being transferred to the air efficiently is another matter, but few things are less efficient at transferring heat than a flat, low-profile, plastic-coated IC is. There is no way these little copper sinks do no good where I've put them.
     
  6. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    Sorry, but no. Proper cooling design will take care of all these concerns. Furthermore, ICs are coated with ceramic -- one of the better materials for the job. Sticking a small aluminum heatsink on top with epoxy isn't going to fix hotspots if they show through the ceramic.

    solutions > band_aids.
     
  7. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    Show me an example of proper cooling then, that I may see the light and be moved to mend my foolish ways.
     
  8. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    Last edited: Jun 17, 2006
  9. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    I do like positive-pressure for that very reason. I hate opening up a computer and having to clean it before I can stand to touch it. Thanks for finally providing an example of your expertise. I may just use it in my next computer.

    That said, the setup that I have now is perfectly stable at a sustained 100% duty cycle, and I expect it to continue being stable for years to come. That sheds some doubt on whether the cost of buying the parts you recommend (though I'm sure they're very good -- they have nice specs) would really net me any long-term gain, even if I had bought them when I first built the computer.

    I guess that's what bugs me about the way you talk to me, gratuitous insults aside. Sure, I can understand why you get ticked off when someone asks for help and then disputes whether your help will be helpful, I get pissed when that happens too. And I understand why you get ticked off when I start speculating about what might be causing a problem and what might solve it when I haven't actually ever dealt with the problem before (though I almost always solve the problem given enough time to experiment). But when I have firsthand experience that something works and you tell me I'm full of shit, all I can think of is "the fuck are you talking about? I have a working example sitting on the floor next to my right foot!" Theory only translates to reality when every possible variable is set properly, and that's almost never the case. Fixes that you are positive could never work have in fact worked before, and will continue to. So cut me some slack when I come up with a different solution than you do, because I come up with different solutions than almost everybody does and it usually pans out.

    Like these little heatsinks for example. I don't think it's a coincidence that I'm consistently scoring 100-150 more PCMarks than I did last week, when I haven't so much as defragged the hard drive since then.
     
  10. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    the difference between a solution and a band-aid is how it addresses the problem. And you determine this distinction based on theory, research, experimentation, and practical application.

    What I suggested is a solution. What you suggested is a band-aid. Band aids usually work, at least in the short term -- that's why people do them. But they are easy-ways-out, often without addressing the root cause of the problem. Band aids also have a nasty habbit of creating more problems. A solution doesn't create more problems (although it can sometimes shed light on other problems that also existed)
     
  11. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    I admire your focus on getting things right the first time; being an engineer, my expertise is in figuring out how to make that happen if at all possible. But all that matters is whether something works or not. Yes, I could spend $200 on a new case and new fans (and perhaps a new power supply to run it all) but would it net me any meaningful benefit? Almost certainly not. Do you remember the RAID I installed in my computer a few weeks ago? That was the last hardware upgrade this computer will ever see, barring catastrophic failure. This machine has been black-boxed; it's built on an obsolete hardware platform and it's not worth the money to upgrade it to current standards, so it will eventually be relegated to some menial task in my basement years from now. What good will your fancy case and spiffy fans do then? Nobody will see them, and the components will be so burnt-in by then that they'll run forever provided that their operating conditions don't change.

    Like I said, I might use your suggestions (or their equivalent at the time) in my next computer.
     
  12. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    I wasn't suggesting it to fix your problem. My point is do it right the first time, and you don't have to spend effort later on to fix the little problems.

    My case/psu/fan recommendations were stated because you asked, and their intention was for a NEW system in the future.
     
  13. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    Very good then.
     
  14. Clarity

    Clarity New Member

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    *crunches on popcorn*

    Hey jolly, I have a thermaltake armor with all default fans installed.

    There's a 120 cm in the front, 120cm in the back, a 80 cm in the top.

    Any ideas to keep it cooler?
     
  15. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    are you just trying to piss me off?

    If you are, it worked.


    If you wern't, please don't ever mention ThermalTake to me again, unless you want my immidiate response to be THROW IT AWAY.
     
  16. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    You really are such a douchebag. Dude asks for help and you tell him off.
     
  17. Doc Brown

    Doc Brown Don't make me make you my hobby

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    Sometimes Thermaltake is the best option.
    I had a pair of thermaltake Volcano fans on my dual amd MP2600 build.
    The reason being that I could find no other high output fans that would fit
    that close together without getting into big dollar fans.

    On my present K8 Tyan scsi board, the Opterons are far enough apart
    that I was able to use a pair of the 7700 series Zalmans.
     
  18. Doc Brown

    Doc Brown Don't make me make you my hobby

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  19. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    sorry, but no. Volcano is one of the products ThermalTake released that gave them the bad name. Horrible argument.

    ThermalTake == Crap.

    Heck, use Sanyo Denky if you need to.
     
  20. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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  21. Doc Brown

    Doc Brown Don't make me make you my hobby

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    They're 120mm.

    If you were as smart as you think, it would have
    dawned on you that the Tyan K8 scsi board is a server
    board, and therefore a 12x13 board.

    Those fans practically cover the board.
     
  22. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    Holy color imbalance, batman.

    Emmet, the Quick Fix tool in Photoshop is your friend. Never save a photo without it.

    Anyway, since we're posting pictures of our builds, here's mine.

    [​IMG]
     
  23. Doc Brown

    Doc Brown Don't make me make you my hobby

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    Actually it's more that my digital camera is a piece of shit.
     
  24. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    So's mine; I used the Quick Fix tool to correct this photo. It's as much a demo of the Quick Fix tool as it is a demo of my CRAZY micro-ATX space-utilizing skillz.
     
  25. Doc Brown

    Doc Brown Don't make me make you my hobby

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    Is yours as bad as a Vivitar 1.2 megapixel?

    Actually, come to think of it the main problem I've always had with it
    is that the flash is ten times too bright and washes everything out.
    So I literally have like four layers of masking tape over the flash to tone it down
    for closeups.
    It takes nice pictures outside.
     

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