Moral dilemma v. Friends

Discussion in 'Vaginarium' started by Leah, Mar 2, 2008.

  1. Leah

    Leah OT Supporter

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    I'm finding it exceedingly hard to maintain friendships, especially with other women. I don't know if anyone else has this problem, that's basically why I'm posting this, just to see if anyone is struggling with this kind of thing or if I'm all alone in thinking that everyone will ALWAYS let me down.

    I've always been better friends with guys. I don't know why. I'm not a very dramatic person, pretty chill, don't like a lot of upheaval and I really don't like catty chicks, which there are a ton of. So it's always been harder for me to keep female friendships going, especially since I got out of school and am no longer around my old buddies that I grew up with. In the past 2 years, I've begun close friendships (where at one time I called them my best buddy) with 3 different young women. I'm 21, the first was 26, the second was 24 and the third (that I'm dealing with right now) is 25.

    For all of them, things were great at first. We had a lot in common, never ran out of things to talk about, they seemed intelligent and good. Then the more I got to know them, and the more they got me alone and the more comfortable they felt...the more they told me...and the more I realized what terrible fucking people they are. This is where I have to check myself. Because I don't want to be that person who gets on their high horse and looks down on everyone else for their own individual morals. But what is WRONG with people?!

    Just a few examples: First chick that I'm friends with is married for a year. About 6 months into our friendship, she starts hanging all over this guy at work, spending time with him after her shift, having drinks and whatnot. Eventually tells me that she's "in love with him and can't help it." Whole situtaion makes me sick, I eventually cut off the friendship.

    Second chick gets a boyfriend, cheats on him about 2 months into the relationship. Her boyfriend proposes, they become engaged then she finds out she's pregant with God knows whos baby and she has an abortion because she's just not ready to have children...even though she's fucking 24 years old and is with a man that loves her for some reason.

    Third girl, who I just recently had this problem with, has been with this guy for 8 years, married for 2, has a kid. She's thinking about cheating on him with one of his relatives. DOES IT EVER FUCKING END?

    I told my boyfriend about all of this yesterday because I just got all upset about it all of the sudden because once again, someone I thought was a good person ended up being a lying piece of shit like everyone else in the world. It just depresses me to no end. I want to have meaningful relationships with people other than my family and my SO but my faith in people is disappearing fast...to the point where I'm getting paranoid about people who have always been in my life, who I could always trust.

    And then I think maybe I'm the problem...maybe I'm being uppity and need to just accept people for how and who they are, and that's what I have to do to have friends.

    I don't know. Any thoughts you have would be appreciated, just looking for any kind of insight...
     
  2. Viper

    Viper OT Supporter

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    Now, imagine you are a man who is only attracted to women and you have to try and DATE one of these people.
     
  3. Leah

    Leah OT Supporter

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    That's the thing, I know that I've probably been naive and that men are just as bad...they just don't think of me as "one of the guys" enough to trust me with their secrets.
     
  4. Viper

    Viper OT Supporter

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    Men can be just as bad, yes.

    The biggest difference I've noticed between men and women comes to the concept of loyalty.

    Women has such a fucking difference concept of loyalty than men do. Men tend to take loyalty more seriously when it comes to friendships and relationships.

    I'm not saying that women can't be loyal. I'm just saying that it seems to me that women aren't as diehard about loyalty as men can be on the whole.
     
  5. iwishyouwerebeer

    iwishyouwerebeer you shut your cunt Moderator

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    You're preaching to the choir my friend. I have only had 3 decent girl friends in my life. And even now I'm not very close with them. I'll call/talk to them usually once every 2 weeks, but I always see my male friends. I'm too chill to deal with the drama even my good girl friends can bring. I just have no interest listening to one of them bitch about her fiance and how he ignores her. The other one cries constantly about how people use her yet she does nothing to correct the situation. The last one moved away so when we talk it's just about the usual bullshit, but she's honestly very dull. I was always the fun one who had to get her going. When I hang out with my male friends I am happy because we have actual conversations that aren't centered around ourselves. Stimulating conversations.

    Every other girl I've been friends with backstabbed me in some way and I cut them out of my life. I had one a few years ago who turned our friends against me. She was jealous because her bf (who was my friend first and I set them up) would hang out with me sometimes, so she pretty much turned a bunch of our mutual friends against me saying that I was hitting on her bf, trying to steal him :mb: typical girl bullshit. Her and I were both sort of ring leaders of our group, so our group ended up splitting and choosing sides. On her side were 2 friends I had had since childhood. They've since apologized and admittedly realized they were idiots, but I will never forgive them.

    For a long time after that instance specifically I too lost a lot of faith in people, women mostly. If anything I just stick by my guy friends because they all treat me like a sister that they would never hurt on purpose and I love that, but if they did something similar I would have no problem doing what is right for me and cutting them loose. I've made friends with other women, I just watch them a little bit closer.
     
  6. Leah

    Leah OT Supporter

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    Because of being female myself, and being diehard as you put it, I always assumed that most women felt the same way. In my dealings with men, I've noticed that when it comes down to actually cheating, even the good ones have a watered down sense of loyalty. Cheating = Sex. As long as they're not engaging in a physical relationship with someone else, they're being loyal. Which, in my mind, just isn't true.

    I basically believe that disloyalty = doing/saying anything that you know would upset your SO. Because in the end, you're deceiving them. I don't know why I thought most women thought that way, because apparently, that's waaaay off the mark.

    What I've noticed more with women is that they try to justify their disloyal behavior by claiming they're being mistreated in the relationship. That it's not their fault. Which is horse shit. And sometimes I feel like they'll stay in a worthless, destructive relationship just because it gives them an excuse.

    But (and I'm really just curious, not disagreeing...) what about men makes you think that they take things more seriously?
     
  7. GreyRS

    GreyRS Your ignorance cramps my conversation.

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    One of the things about having friends is you don't have to like everything about them. You do have to have respect for them as they have to for you.

    In the cases you described, the common theme is cheating. You obviously have strong feelings on the subject (That's good) and it caused you to instantly lose respect for each woman. Considering how much of it goes on in our society now, you will encounter this again. So, you have to determine for yourself if a personal lack of self control or them having "laxer" moral standards than you is something you can except.

    I really can't give much advice on what you should do from here. I am the type of person who knows a lot of people but call very few friend and I am a guy. I tend to compartmentalize my "friends" or as I really refer to them, associates and people I know. There is something in each of them that I enjoy when around them and that is what I focus on. I know we all have our faults but, if they do not bring their drama to me or drag me in it, they can live their life and we will remain "friends". I offer an ear when needed. Sometimes I just listen and sometimes I give my point of view when asked for it. I try my best not to judge though. I have seen way too many senseless things happen and understand that everyone has their "reasons". While I may not agree with them, they are theirs and they have to live with the choices made because of them.

    Not sure any of what I wrote will help you in any way but, know that you are not alone. You are in the midst of a generation which makes the "Me Generation" look like some of the most caring and giving people to walk the earth and they were a bunch of selfish fucks! Instant gratifiaction is way to easy to come by in our lives now and it lessens the value of a lot of the things we should hold most dear.
     
  8. Leah

    Leah OT Supporter

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    God, doesn't it fucking suck? :ugh:

    Because then there is a whole different laundry list of problems that come with having primarily guy friends. I cut ties with a ton of guy buddies when I got with my current boyfriend, because he was uncomfortable with it, understandably. I wanted to argue with him that there was nothing more than friendship with them, but with guy friends, you never fucking know.

    When I was younger I had a lot of problems with developing what I thought were innocent friendships with guys, that I was so happy with! Because like you said, they really are less self absorbed and petty, way more down to earth, easy to talk to. You think there's no pressure until they turn on you for "leading them on." :ugh: 3 or 4 guys when I was a teenager did that to me. We were best buddies, then they drop a bomb on me and ask me out, I freak the fuck out and say "No thanks, you're like my brother, wtf..." and then they're not interested in being friends anymore. It's hurtful. /When Harry Met Sally
     
  9. KindlyCuddly

    KindlyCuddly Irina Lazareanu

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    Everyone has faults, even men, it's just that women are more likely to express them instead of just bottling it inside. My friends are pretty much exclusively female, only because I actually prefer the the excitement and the drama that comes along with them. :hsugh: And if you're only looking to befriend people with your morals then you're going to have a tough time making them. All the examples you listed pertain to their dealings with other people...why should that affect your friendships with them?
     
  10. iwishyouwerebeer

    iwishyouwerebeer you shut your cunt Moderator

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    I hear ya. My little group of guy friends are the best. Some I actually dated innthe past or almost dated and then we all got over it and moved on. Luckily my bf is comfortable with all of them and they all love him and invite him out for guy's nights now. But yeah, I have gone through certain male friends as well who wanted more and got upset when they realized there wasn't going to be more than friendship. Having good friends is always a hard to come by, but I feel it's worth it.
     
  11. Leah

    Leah OT Supporter

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    That's just silly. In what alternate universe do you live in where it's not important how people treat others? How can I appreciate them as a person when I find their lifestyle to be deplorable? They make decisions with absolutely NO concern for anyone else. They shit on people who love them. I just have to ignore that and be their buddy because they haven't stabbed ME in the back yet? No thanks.
     
  12. demosnat

    demosnat New Member

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    Meet better women.
    The type of people who are attracted to you (for relationships, sex, or friendships) are highly indicative of you as a person.
     
  13. iwishyouwerebeer

    iwishyouwerebeer you shut your cunt Moderator

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    :werd: I can't be friends with people I don't respect.
     
  14. Leah

    Leah OT Supporter

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    :ugh: Meaning...?
     
  15. GreyRS

    GreyRS Your ignorance cramps my conversation.

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    There have been quite a few people who have walked away from me because of their relationships or because they were scared to dissappoint me, (The last part is always confusing to me) both male and female. It is funny how two people can get together and then just because of the sex of their friends, they have to distance themselves from those friends or because their new SO does not like them.

    In my opinion, it is about trust. I don't have to like any of my SO's freinds. I do have to trust that if it is a guy friend she will not do anything I won't like and if it is a female friend she will not let them influence her into doing something wrong. If I did not trust her and her decision making, I would not be with her.
     
  16. demosnat

    demosnat New Member

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    You know well and good that this behavior is as common among men as it is among women.
    Women are more social, and you're more likely (esp if you're a woman) to HEAR about it from women.
     
  17. Leah

    Leah OT Supporter

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    This made a lot of sense to me, it's exactly what I'm struggling with. How it seems like everyone I meet has a dealbreaker skeleton in their closet, when there are still a lot of redeeming qualities.
     
  18. demosnat

    demosnat New Member

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    Sorry, i should have worded that better.
    Myself for example: I tend to get into friendships with depressed man-children, because i'm overly maternal. I tend to get into friendships with older women, because i've been supporting myself for longer than my peers and have more in common with them.


    There are reasons you go for the people you do, and why they 'go' for you. Don't see it as a negative, but put some thought into why you're batting 0 for 3.
    It could just be where you're meeting people. What kind of work you do if you're meeting them at work, etc.
     
  19. KindlyCuddly

    KindlyCuddly Irina Lazareanu

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    I only mentioned it because it jars with my understanding of what a friendship is supposed to be. I consider it an investment in a person, flaws and all, because you care about them. Anything else is just an associate. :dunno:

    I think it's completely weird to cut off friends you already have an established relationship for the reasons you listed. Like the first girl who disgusted you for...falling in love with someone? Thats an example I don't even understand but whatevs. Maybe I'm mistaken but one of the functions of friendship is to discuss our flaws and mistakes...but this is a matter of preference so I'll just concede that you want friends with similar morals.

    I think that women are more likely to see friendship like that more than men.
     
  20. Leah

    Leah OT Supporter

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    But why would I want to invest anything in anyone who I *know* is a shady, shady bitch? They always confide in me and then say, "I don't want you to think bad of me, you're not going to think less of me if I do this, etc." And the truth is, "Well, yeah, you fucking suck." So if I were honest with them, they would terminate the frienship themselves because my opinion just might make them feel bad about themselves, which would not be conducive to the plans and decisions they've already made. Selfish, selfish, selfish.

    So I lie. And listen. And try to be sympathetic. When all I really feel is contempt.

    But I understand your point...you should care enough about your friends to forgive their flaws, because that's what friends are for.
     
  21. Mugen92GS-R

    Mugen92GS-R New Member

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    I feel the same way as you right now, per my previous thread.

    I also found out my ex didn't just fuck that one guy, she'd been fucking that girl AND her friend, and telling them both she wanted to be with only them, and that she couldn't break up with me because I beat her. Then after she'd get the attention she needed from them, she'd come back to me all "baby I love you I would never cheat on you" etc.

    She was living at least 4 OTHER complete LIVES outside of the one where me and her had a relationship.
     
  22. iwishyouwerebeer

    iwishyouwerebeer you shut your cunt Moderator

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    Yikes...
     
  23. Mugen92GS-R

    Mugen92GS-R New Member

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    :rofl::rofl:

    Yeah, and after I dumped her on monday, she was telling everyone that she broke up with me because I beat her :rofl:

    At least me and the girl have been talking, and we're trying to get her friend (the drug dealer... remember? :rofl:) to believe us about how big of a lying whore this chick is... hopefully he listens.
     
  24. JordanClarkson

    JordanClarkson OT Supporter

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    Cheating is something difficult to look past though, especially when it's someone you barely know. But I think the only times I've severed close friendships were when they judged me. Everyone has issues and I don't believe in judging my friends. The older you get, the more fucked up things you've done in life. I'm not in control of their lives and it doesn't really concern me. There's so many other things in the world that's important to me than who's fucking who. By the way, guys are just as bad. They just won't usually tell a girl their secrets.
     
  25. iwishyouwerebeer

    iwishyouwerebeer you shut your cunt Moderator

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    Yeah...next time you'll know now (hopefully) to pay more attention to a girl's actions and personality...because from everything you told me about her, her lifestyle,etc. this doesn't totally shock me.
     

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