Mobile system promises free calls

Discussion in 'OT Technology' started by piratepenguin, Sep 12, 2007.

  1. piratepenguin

    piratepenguin New Member

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  2. smartguy112

    smartguy112 Guest

  3. OakleyTodd

    OakleyTodd New Member

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    Google will do it here in the states if they win the FCC Auction early next year.
     
  4. Doc Brown

    Doc Brown Don't make me make you my hobby

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    Unless the phones wind up with much higher bandwidth than is necessary to place a call, each phone working as a node could quickly become a pyramid scheme whenever there is heavy usage.
     
  5. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    worthless pipe dream.
     
  6. 5Gen_Prelude

    5Gen_Prelude There might not be an "I" in the word "Team", but

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    I'll bite, why? The only thing I don't get is how can this can be profitable - cell companies make money off of the network, either by owning or leasing it, and then reselling time to users. Remove the network and then what?
     
  7. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    because you'll never *reliably* be able to complete a call unless your node is "touching" the node you are calling -- and even then it's iffy because the bandwidth provided may be saturated. It's basically no better than a set of walkie-talkies.

    So one day you could place a call through another station, but then next day that stations bandwidth is saturated, or that user has walked outside of range of one of the nodes and the call cannot be completed. In rural areas this would be a common problem with nodes moving. In populated areas it would become difficult to maintain accurate routing tables and bandwidth would easily become saturated. Battery life would also be problematic. Most wireless phones have standby times of a few days, but talk times of only a few hours. However, using this peer-to-peer approach, a phone will be sending/receiving whenever the user is on a call, or whenever any other user is relaying through the user. As a result, batteries will die quickly even if a user hasn't used the handset themselves.
     
  8. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    Yeah, redundant distributed peer-to-peer networks are just paper tigers; they'll never work in real life.
     
  9. Doc Brown

    Doc Brown Don't make me make you my hobby

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    Actually we're near the point where I could see this working.

    Fast processors, plenty of memory, and on the fly compression - read bare necessities as far as speach quality goes - and you could probably do some damage with nodes.
     
  10. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    You think so? YOU'RE USING ONE RIGHT NOW. It's called the Internet.

    :squint:

    It was a joke.
     
  11. Doc Brown

    Doc Brown Don't make me make you my hobby

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    :cjerk: [​IMG]
     
  12. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    You're def not thinking this through, then.

    You forget the MOST important factors -- bandwidth through the air (aka frequencies), reliability (none), and battery life (shitty).
     
  13. Doc Brown

    Doc Brown Don't make me make you my hobby

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    Bandwidth through the air would be minimalized by the on the fly compression.
    As far as the battery goes, you're assuming a small cell phone sized item. It might not wind up like that.
    And reliability? Depends on who manufactures it, no?
     
  14. piratepenguin

    piratepenguin New Member

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    There's more to it than that. How do you make sure you get the quickest most reliable route to a destination? Will you be able to switch to the next-best route if one node we needed goes down?...

    It's difficult, I'm sure. But somebody might be able to get it right. The only problem is 5Gen_Prelude's point that it'd be difficult to make profit, which means not so many people will be trying...

    This would have it's uses even on a less-wide scale. Forget about walkie talkies, these could do that job better.
     
  15. Doc Brown

    Doc Brown Don't make me make you my hobby

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    Well another thing no one thought to mention is power. As in how many watts a unit would handle. Cell phones are not even a watt, due to the fact that there are cell phone towers everywhere.
    But with a hand held node-phone, they could just make it 10 watts if they wanted, and overcome a lot of the problems we're talking about.
    I wouldn't want one of those puppies pressed against my face for too long though. :mamoru:
     
  16. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    Um, seriously tho... Ever heard of cancer??? And what about heat? Cell phones get hot as it is -- now multiply the power by a few orders of magnitude and you've got a personal oven in your pocket! And then you run into the battery life concern. Even at the 0.25W range that we're currently at, cell phone batteries are NOT sufficent... So what do you think is gonna happen when you need a continuous 10W? Fuck.
     
  17. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    I disagree. There is only so much bandwidth through the air. Wireless carriers are able to operate due to small nodes that cover small areas. Adjacent nodes cannot use the same channels, but skip a node and they can reuse the band. However, this peer-to-peer system would require everyone to inter-connect which means you do not have that luxury. And since every node would be mobile and must auto-adapt, it simply will not work on existing wireless technology.

    What, we're all gonna wheel around large carts with antennas, diesel generators, and an array of car batteries??? To succeed, it would have to be size-cometitive with existing wireless phones.

    There is WAY more to reliability than the manufacturer. My main point about reliability is CONSISTENCY. The ability to make and receive calls without issue. And due to the mobile nature of the nodes, it is very likely that one day, nodes would be in a position to allow a call to a particular destination... However, the next, they would not. Thus you would not be able to reliably place calls.
     
  18. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    How does this work any better than Sprint PowerSource? Nationwide CDMA coverage on Sprint PCS, with access to all the other carriers through Sprint roaming agreements. And the ability to use both Sprint Press-to-Talk and the Nextel iDen Walkie-Talkie network. Great idea, imo.
     
  19. piratepenguin

    piratepenguin New Member

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    I don't know how "Sprint PowerSource" works, but if I have to guess, unless they're taking on my thinking with 2 mile range walkie talkies walkie talkie A won't be able to talk to C who's 3 miles away, while B is 1.5 miles from both A and C. In the middle of the Sahara desert.

    I just think it's a nice way to have communications. We could still use masts, strategically - perhaps government-funded (or city funded), perhaps private with possible subscription mechanism (if you haven't paid, we'll not route from you, maybe).

    Consider what happens to reliability on current mobile networks when a mast goes down. Everybody's fucked. This has apparently happened in my town - Meteor coverage used to be excellent, now EVERY meteor user in town I know is pissed off at it and has been for weeks.
     
  20. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    No, they will utilize Nextel iDen towers so you can walkie-talkie across the country.

    But this is what I LOVE about these pipe dreams. As we talk about them and brainstorm, they get further and further away from the original idea, and closer and closer to what we already have! We're at the point where you basically NEED to pay for the subscription to reliably contact anyone -- therefore why not leave it as a subscription-only service... We already have that! It's called a Wireless Phone.

    That's a problem for being on a shitty carrier. In the 10 years I've had a wireless phone i have only once experienced my carrier's tower going down in my area... And when it did happen, I went into my phone's menu and told it to roam-only. BAM I had perfect signal and for 1 day I used another carriers towers. And since I have nation-wide no-roaming charges, it was all free to me. So 1 day in 10 years, and even then I was able to communicate without much issue... I call that pretty damn good!



    Honestly, I think this idea is really just a lame pipe dream. Instead of trying to implement a whole new system, let's innovate on what we have -- because what we have already works.
     
  21. Doc Brown

    Doc Brown Don't make me make you my hobby

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    Uh, yeah. That's why I made the comment about 10 watts against your face.
     
  22. Doc Brown

    Doc Brown Don't make me make you my hobby

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  23. 5Gen_Prelude

    5Gen_Prelude There might not be an "I" in the word "Team", but

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    To be fair, the idea was intended for locations that don't have the infastructure.
     
  24. piratepenguin

    piratepenguin New Member

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    Umm, in the Sahara? No, I don't think so. In this case, it is WAAY more useful than what we have.

    Meteor is a shitty carrier? Well I'm glad I don't use them, but in this country they're very popular.

    It's funny in my town. Meteor users have to head around outside to try and get coverage. Now, whenever one person does go and does get a fair bit of coverage, they'd be fit to route for other people who haven't gone outside - why not? Maybe the community could get together and get a proper wireless router to stick somewhere outside, so everyone around the most of the town will have pretty good coverage WITHOUT needing to run around.
     
  25. piratepenguin

    piratepenguin New Member

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