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Discussion in 'OT Bar' started by ElectricJW, Mar 15, 2006.

  1. ElectricJW

    ElectricJW We are all ONE!

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    Does anyone know anything about Ninpo Taijutsu? There is a class offered around here, and I was wondering if this was worth going to. Like compared to other fighting styles, Kung Fu, JiJutsu, etc....would this style hold its own against other fighty styles?
     
  2. DOHChi

    DOHChi New Member

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    as long as you have made chakra, ur ninjutsu will own. u can even be the next hokage
     
  3. ElectricJW

    ElectricJW We are all ONE!

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    Really I'm looking for something to train in, that would fit best in real life. Like if I had to fight someone on the street, I would like to end it quickly.

    From what I've heard of Ninpo Taijuitsu, you mostly want your opponent to strike first, then you counter it, but try to end it on the first counter. Say, someone punches at you, you counter it and break his arm. From what I've heard about it, it seems pretty good. Has anyone here taken this before? If so, whats your thoughts on it?
     
  4. teep

    teep New Member

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    Honestly, there is so much speculation about martial arts and "real" situation and everyone is going to always disagree. I've trained in tae kwon do (not anymore), judo, wrestling, muay thai, and bjj. From my experience in street fights (which isn't much at all) learning how throw and take a punch and being able to take it to the ground and control seemed the most important. I have a couple friends that bounce regularly at bars and clubs and they say they always use guillotines and rear naked chokes. I think boxing and wrestling will go a long way. I'm sure alot of other people will tell you otherwise though.

    Heres my personal opinion about ninpo taijutsu. I know absolutely nothing about it, but to say you can counter and break someones arm when they throw a punch is a bold claim. Usually traditional martial arts aren't the best way to go for self defense. Really if you find yourself in a situation where you have to fight on the street I'd suggest you fight dirty. Do whatever you have to do to win.

    Anyway I hope you find something you enjoy training in.
     
  5. Where do you live? Maybe I can find you a better place
     
  6. Trisomy21

    Trisomy21 New Member

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    There's a problem with waiting for the counter, which is that you have to let the guy throw a punch at you. Why wait? Soon as he lifts his arm hit him in the face and keep going.

    Find something that has everything. If you know of a JKD school in your area I'd reccommend that.
     
  7. JustGod

    JustGod New Member

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    As a whole, you won't find many people that will recommend ninjutsu. Most of it isn't really practical if you are just looking for self defense on the street. Do you know anything about the place itself? Claiming to break someone's arm when they throw a punch seems like a point against them.
     
  8. Maestro Nobones

    Maestro Nobones Great Job! - GLAD DADS CREW

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    yeah, there are very few schools that say they teach ninjitsu that actually have ties to real classical ninjas. I don't think ninpo is one of them, but I could be wrong.

    either way, taijitsu = dead training. stay away.
     
  9. ElectricJW

    ElectricJW We are all ONE!

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    They dont fight like K1 or anything like that. They just train agaisnt each other, but don't hold fights or anything like that. It goes against their beliefs. But he said he entered a couple martial art fights b/c he needed the money, and won them all.

    The guy that teaches it, teaches it for free. He said he has been doing it since around the age of 5. Its not like you sit there and wait for them to attack you. Like he said in this style it teaches you how to end the fight fast, by either breaking bones or killing them (which "ninpo" is where you don't kill them).

    The guy that teaches it said that he has done a lot of other martial arts before and he said this is the best one (his opinion). He said that one of his students took him to a kung fu class, and on his first day he got black belt, and beat the kung fu teacher.

    The way this guy talks, it sounds like its the real deal. So has anyone taken this class or known someone?
     
  10. ElectricJW

    ElectricJW We are all ONE!

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    Yeah he said its classical ninja style. He said Jaijitsu is the main one, but ninpo is like branch off of it, if that makes sense.
     
  11. Maestro Nobones

    Maestro Nobones Great Job! - GLAD DADS CREW

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    this is complete bullshit. all these things are commonly tossed around in the traditional martial arts community as 'proof' that the style is badass, but the problem is that NONE of these claims are verifiable, and in fact will fall apart under any close scrutiny.

    but you sound already convinced, if you want to be a ninjer that bad then go do it. but know full well that you'll get your ass handed to you in a real fight.
     
  12. ElectricJW

    ElectricJW We are all ONE!

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    Ok:rolleyes:.

    What is bullshit about what I said?
     
  13. Maestro Nobones

    Maestro Nobones Great Job! - GLAD DADS CREW

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    so it goes against his beliefs, which are of paramount importance.. unless of course he needs money? and what pray tell, were the names of these events that he went to and 'won it all'? I will bet you $5 that he can't come up with a name of an organization, and if he does, I'll bet another $5 that his name is not listed anywhere on their roster of champs.

    another common myth among traditional martial arts, that the style is 'too deadly' and that any one of the techniques you train are so dangerous that you can't use them on anyone without fear of maiming or killing them. The problem with this line of thinking is that there is no way of KNOWING if the techs are deadly because you train them in a dead pattern environment against non-resisting opponents.

    this is the most ridiculous claim of all, and yet it's another one you'll see commonly tossed around by TMA schools. Again, press deeper, ask him exactly what school and what kung fu teacher he defeated to earn his black belt. I'll bet you another $5 that if he even gives you a name, that teacher won't corroborate the story.

    Here's the deal chap. I spent over 10 years training traditional martial arts. These claims are VERY COMMON, and are almost never, ever verifiable.

    There is a slim chance that this school is the real deal where they train alive and against fully resisting opponents. But having to make outrageous claims like that usually means they are NOT. As they say, the proof is in the pudding... and in martial arts you should be able to prove yourself by DOING, not by saying.

    Like I said, you didn't seem to come in here genuinely asking a question. You wanted us to be like "OMG YESH that is teh coolest ninjer school in teh world OMG you are so cool because you are gonna be a ninjer!" and now you roll your eyes at me when I tell you my honest opinion. I've been around a while and seen lots of martial arts, good and bad. And amazingly I'm not one of those "MMA IS TEH BEST EVER REAKLGEKGRGR" types. MMA doesn't cover all bases of self defense, it's not the end all be all. I've just seen the BS that most traditional martial arts schools peddle, and it's watered down crap that most likely won't work against even the most skilless opponent... and even if it DID work you wouldn't be able to pull it off because you've never tried it on an opponent who isn't LETTING you do the technique.

    So go do it. Be a ninjer. But in a few years when you realize it's bullshit, don't come crying to me.
     
  14. jag6984

    jag6984 New Member

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    .

    Seriously, those claims are complete BS. When I look at martial arts schools, the first thing I look for is certification of the instructor. A good instructor will have certification from either the government of the art's origin or an organizational body for the art. Ninjitsu training (from what I've researched) is very unapplicable to almost any situation unless your spying on ex g/f's or something.

    Outline some training goals of what you want to accomplish and watch/take a class or two at the school your thinking of. Most schools should let you have a free introductory class, and it should be fun and active above all.
     
  15. Skeletor

    Skeletor Guest

    Personally I'm more trained in boxing than I am in Muay Thai, so if I were to get in street fight I would try to keep it standing with boxing and, when my window opened up, I'd throw in some knees and elbows (I'm real tall so I favor the clinch as I can knee the average guy in the ribs or face with ease).

    The fact of the matter is in a street fight chances are you won't have control and calmness to execute some fancy martial arts trick, nor will your opponent be expecting you to like they would in a class, and therefore it wouldn't be set up right.


    Like Bas said in his streetfight video ( :mamoru: ), anything goes in a street fight. Kick to the balls, break joints or bones if you think it's necessary, just do what you gotta do. That's why I'd be weary of even using muay thai... Kicks surrender a lot of balance. With a knee you either have to stay standing on the other leg or go flying forward with your knee out, and either way your opponent can see that you'll be standing there with nothing but your guard for the next second while you regain balance, or if you did a flying knee they can dodge it and get you from the side if they're fast enough. Never give them a sure thing. If you stick with boxing you can weave in and out as fast as you want and they don't have anything sure to rely on.

    Wrestling would also be good for that, you'd be able to avoid long range strikes, and chances are if you kept your strength up you could overpower guys bigger than you. Wrestling or boxing if you're learning stuff for self defense.
     
  16. Skeletor

    Skeletor Guest

    Alright instead of putting just my opinion in this thread (which I've already done :o ), I'll try and put some facts/evidence to explain why traditional martial arts are no good for real fights.

    Muay Thai:

    Look at traditional muay thai, and look at ring fighting. Two very similar yet very different things. Traditional muay thai has a different stance, your guard is lowered, and a lot of the moves are what non-fighters would call "fancy".

    Now look at ring fiighting. It is the same art, only modified for an opponent who knows how to fight.
    -Your stance is more of a standing position (as opposed to the bent knee crouch of traditional muay thai stance and similar tho what you'd see in kung-fu, etc) because you've got to move your feet and yourself all the time, CONSTANTLY.
    -Your guard is up at ALL times.
    -You clench your opponent, basically hugging them with one or both hands around the crown of their head, and knee them while keeping your face tucked into their shoulder (this is to decrease the number of things they can do to you... you're too close for a kick, you can be punched but they won't because surrendering an arm means you have full control of their body, and can take them down. Your head is tucked in so they can't elbow you).


    Now just taking these few things into consideration, it is clear that (since muay thai evolved from an ancient art to the more modern form just in the last century or so) when fighting is done by certain rules on a wide scale, it will adapt to better fit the necessity of the fighter.

    We see that some essential things about stand-up fighting are:
    1) Always keep a stance in which you can move fast and easily. This is not with your knee bent and your feet cemented to the ground. You need footwork and to keep constantly moving, and ready to get the F out of the way when necessary.
    2) Always keep your guard up. A proper guard will protect places that you can't "learn to take a punch" such as the ribs, neck, and face. You can get used to taking punches there, but they will always cause a lot of damage, wheras if you learn to take a punch in the stomach, the damage is minimal.
    3) Always seek control of your opponent, and never, ever let them control you. To let someone wrap their arms around you in a way that they are seeking not only means they have the advantage, but it means that they're going to do something they're either really good at or had planned on, which means they have a plan for the current situation and you don't... Chances are you will panic while they're kneeing you or taking you down, you'll lose even more if not all control, and you're fucked. Letting someone get you in the full clench with both hands on your head or get a hold on you for take down means they have control. This is essential to avoid being used on you and to seek using it on your opponent.


    Okay, so now that we know this, what arts are the best to learn for an actual fight?

    Obviously if you're looking for a martial art with practical use, you want something that has been used in real life thousands of times, and adapted to fit real life situations. Muay Thai is a good start, for the exact reason listed above. Boxing is also great for standup. However, you must remember that both MT and boxing are styles made for ring fighting. Rings have rules and codes that the fighters abide by (like no ground fighting or hitting a man while he's down). The best thing you can do, knowing that these rules won't be around on the street, is learn to fight where those weaknesses in the game are. Groundfighting is probably the most important thing to learn when the rules are off and you're in a bad position. In my opinion, while things like Brazillian Jiu Jitsu are great, spending some time here and there wrestling with an opponent and learning the way people move, take down, and how to manipulate them and avoid your own manipulation by them, should be sufficient (but I have little experience on the ground or in street fights, so don't take my word for it). These are the arts best suited to learn how to defend yourself in a situation where someone is determined on fighting you and not letting you go.

    Here's the problem with all of this: While yes, on one hand it is very necessary to know how to defend yourself in a one on one fight, there are a lot of factors of a "street fight" that you have to take into consideration. These include things such as weapons, multiple opponents, or simply crazy ways of fighting that will catch you off guard, opponents taking a hostage, sucker punches, and getting kicked in the groin and being unable to perform 100%.

    All of these things complicate matters and in fact just go to show that learning how to be even deadly in the ring may not mean much on the street.

    The only sure way to not get your ass kicked in a street fight? Avoid it at all costs. If someone is really pressing the action, run if you have to. It's very often that even if someone is bent on beating another person up, and won't let them walk away, if they actually run away then the person will take it as that person being so scared of them that they're actually in fear of the lives, and they will feel bad ass or top dog or accomplished or whatever it was they were seeking by wanting to hurt you in the first place.

    I know we all want to be Bruce Lee and come flying at anybody who disrespects our honor and beat them up without letting them get so much as flicking you, but the simple fact is that this stuff is for the movies. Even Bruce Lee said on camera many times (obviously not in the films) that for practical use, he would punch the person who was messing with him a few times (I think a few punches from bruce lee would have done the trick on most people).

    Good luck in picking your martial art.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 15, 2006
  17. ElectricJW

    ElectricJW We are all ONE!

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    I never said he entered like K1 or something like that. I dont remember where he said he was @, but he just needed money for food, so thats why he fought. It was like small time fight thing, but he won all of the fights he had to fight. It was only a couple hunderd dollars as the prize, so yeah its nothing big.

    The moves aren't considered "too deadly" b/c there is a different branch that focuses on these types of moves. And you can practice the techniques w/out hurting them. Not that hard.

    Ninpo Taijitsu isn't the only training that he has had. He was in the military and traveled the world, and delved in the different types of fighting styles.

    You think these guys train on motionless people? They train @ full speed. But you seem to know alot about this guy and his routines, even though you dont even know who i'm talkin about:rolleyes:.

    I never came in here to be the coolest ninjer ever, if I did, tell me when i said it. So stop tryin to put words in my mouth.

    I was just askin how this fighting style holds up to the others, and your just bashing this b/c you dont really know much about it either. Thats why I was asking people if they had any experience w/ this style.
     
  18. Maestro Nobones

    Maestro Nobones Great Job! - GLAD DADS CREW

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    :rofl: ok ninjer :mb:

    don't ask for an opinion if you don't want to hear what people have to say.
     
  19. MyLittleAirport

    MyLittleAirport OT Supporter

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    Give us the name of the organization, we'll be able to google it. :mamoru:


    But seriously, if you wanna go train it. Go right ahead, its not like its my money I'm wasting...
     
  20. Maestro Nobones

    Maestro Nobones Great Job! - GLAD DADS CREW

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    seriously, this is ALWAYS how this story goes.
     
  21. d0nk3ypunch

    d0nk3ypunch New Member

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    The claims he's throwing around are so common, there's no need to see how he trains. This is going to be like every other McDojo out there.

    No one is trying to insult you dude, but you did come in here asking for advice, and many knowledgeable people have stated what they think, and you seem closed to their opinions. In reality they are 100% right, lots of us (including myself) have lost a lot of money to teachers to claim to have done amazing things, when in fact they have no record that can be proven.
     
  22. konrad109

    konrad109 New Member

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    Why not take a system designed specifically for self defense if thats what you're into? If you can find a good Krav Maga instructor I think you'll be impressed with how effective it is. You won't see any fancy moves, but some very basic techniques that build on each other combined with the physical and mental conditioning to carry them out in a stressful situation.
     
  23. Skeletor

    Skeletor Guest

    nobody has commented on the beauty and relevance of my little essay :wtc: I feel so neglected.



    :greddy: :mamoru:

    anyways, don't take offense when everyone doesn't believe the guy's stories... We're not badgering you or anything, just saying the guy runs a business and may be saying what he has to say in order to get customers.

    Read what I wrote and then tell me if you think this fighting style is practical.
     
  24. Maestro Nobones

    Maestro Nobones Great Job! - GLAD DADS CREW

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    krav can be good or bad too, lots of places are already discarding the live training aspect in favor of physical fitness orientation. buyer beware.
     
  25. JustGod

    JustGod New Member

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    It really does seem like you have already convinced yourself about the place. You seem to be defending it quite a bit against what others think. Most everything you said in post #9 makes it seem that it is the exact definition of a Mcdojo. The outlandish claims, the self assured superiority, the lack of physical evidence, and most importantly, the way the guy talks. Honestly, find something better. We aren't saying this to bring you or him down, but simply answering your question. Ninjutsu as a whole is looked down upon by most (Part of the reason they changed it to what you are now calling it) and this particular instructor you are speaking of makes the system look that much worse.
     

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