LGBT Missouri ant-gay (?) constitutional amendment

Discussion in 'Lifestyle' started by AVengeance, Aug 24, 2004.

  1. AVengeance

    AVengeance Active Member

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    Hey 'all. (raises right hand)... I am me, and I am not gay. (lowers hand).

    That said, my "adjenda" crosses that of the gay/les community on occasion, because of marriage issues (tradition vs. law vs. religion, etc.). Here in the Midwest where I am, the voters of Missouri recently passed what they believe to be a ban on gay marriage. What the actual amendment says is that a marriage to be recognized by the state of MO, shall be between a man and a woman. That de-facto bans man+cat, woman+dog, man+man, etc.

    The pendulum of this issue has been swinging back and forth, harder each time. One way was the Mass. gay marriage recognition, the other way was the MO gay marriage ban. I think it's all going to come to a head sometime in the next four years (regardless of dem or rep in White House).

    We all need to act together, and to do that, there are some things the gay community needs to get together on (and get together with other groups concerned about protecting "marriage" from the government).

    What can we do to work together?
     
  2. CoCo

    CoCo ...is a Queer Don!! OT Supporter

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    Well, for starters we need to realize that there is a separation between church and state, and with that, conservative fundamentalist need to refrain from infringing on queer households. If two people of the same sex would like to marry, what business is it of anyone else? And with the typical rebuttal being that since it's tapping into everyone's taxes, then it's everyone's issue, I remind them that queers pay taxes too.

    So what are your ideas?
     
  3. AVengeance

    AVengeance Active Member

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    What I'd actually LIKE to see?

    All the taxes and tax exemptions relating to "marriage" GONE. OK, so now you can't be taxed or exempted from taxation because you participated in a religious ceremony. Remove the government from this failed social engineering.

    Marriage defined in the constitution, if necessary, as "...a ceremony, typically of a religious or spiritual nature, therefore it cannot be further defined or controlled by any governing body of the United States of America". Take government OUT of marriage. You're not going to get your way by saying "marriage can be this, but not that".

    What can we do?
    Remind people that the US and every state constitution is for controlling GOVERNMENT, not just the CITIZENS.

    Get a Bible, and do some homework. Next time one of those Bible-thumping hypocrites comes along, try to engage in a little intillectual debate. Ask "does God hate homosexuality?" Let them point out a scripture verse or their choosing. Nod politely. Ask them "is that enough reason to make a government law banning it, because God hates it?" When they say "yes!", then point out Matthew 2:15-16 "...Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth (his first wife). For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that He hateth putting away (divorce)..." Then tell them "So God also hates divorce. Says so right here, in plain English. Should it not also be banned in the same law?" Also, you know that whole "what God puts together, let no man put asunder" quote? How about this: Ask them if they are the false prophets spoken of in First Timothy 4 "...in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils (choosing tradition over God); Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry...". Did you know it's against the Bible to make a law forbidding marriage? It doesn't say WHY (interracial, gay, etc.), but it's very clear that it will happen, and it looks like now it is (constitutional amendment in MO). You'll find the Bible-thumpers get really upset when you go stabbing them with their own sword.

    Find organizations that support your cause in ways you might not have thought of... check out www.truthbearer.org . A victory for you is a victory for them, too. There are plenty of religious (Mormon, Muslim, Jewish, and even Christian, as the website I mentioned points out) organizations, and non-religious but not-necessarily-gay organizations (ACLU, etc.), that want to limit the power of government, and want individuals to have the rights that you want, to be considered equal.

    Band together. Find out what's going on in your area, and post it here. There might be other people that just don't know about a particular bill signing, petition drive, etc., but that would be interested in doing something about it.

    Focus more on the civil liberties aspect, and less on the gay aspect, in respect to laws. Not because "eew, you're gay, stay in the closet", but because it opens your cause up to so much more a diverse crowd.

    Focus on eliminating unjust laws rather than creating new ones.

    Here's my situation:
    I'm not gay- quite the opposite. I have two wives. What affects you in terms of marriage laws almost invariably affects my family as well. You think YOU have an un-common family structure? My wives can't go anywhere together without people thinking they're a lesbian couple. I can't go anywhere with both of them without people looking at me like a pimp-daddy swinger or something. People ask the kids who that lady and that lady are (that's my mom, and that's my aunt is the response, BTW). We went somewhere recently for family pictures. The lady said "which one is your wife". I told her the truth, and she laughed it off. I then said "they're sisters, now I want them BOTH in the picture! Then there's the insurance issue, and all the other issues that a gay couple deals with.

    We're all in this together!
     
  4. CoCo

    CoCo ...is a Queer Don!! OT Supporter

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    ...interesting. As far as the biblical rebuttal, I stopped arguing with people like that after I completely stumped Fred Phelps on TV, armed only with my superior intellect and the Bible, and he could do or say nothing, except that God will continue to hate me as long as I twist around his words. :rolleyes:

    I moved on...

    Yea, I do the whole politically aware/active/motivated thing, serving with various groups, and helping to pass along information.

    I hear what you are saying about the civil liberties angle -VS- the queer centered focus, but a lot of people are just starting to enjoy basking in the OUT sunlight. They see any sort of step in other directions as infringingly stepping on their toes, and they rally up in arms--systematically burning bridges.
     
  5. RedGoober4Life

    RedGoober4Life New Member

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    They can keep Missouri if that's how they feel! :p
     

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