MFC, yay or nay?

Discussion in 'OT Technology' started by CyberBullets, Feb 27, 2003.

  1. CyberBullets

    CyberBullets I reach to the sky, and call out your name. If I c

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    i got a chance to learn mfc.

    is it worth my time to learn this proprietary POS!

    i would rather spend my time learning asm :big grin: or doing java gui.

    what do u guys think about mfc? fuck it or best thing since sliced bread!
     
  2. D1G1T4L

    D1G1T4L Active Member

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    well most apps are still in MFC but i hear it's a pain in the ass

    it's not best thing since slided bread thats for sure, so you might think about learning java swing or C# much easier to do GUI in them than in MFC

    do you want to learn it for yourself or what?
     
  3. CyberBullets

    CyberBullets I reach to the sky, and call out your name. If I c

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    i know C# already. :)

    well its for my CIS deploma. i either have comp250 (MFC) or comp283(ASM). im leaning towards assembly.

    we are trying to petition to change 250 to either a java gui or advanced java class.
     
  4. D1G1T4L

    D1G1T4L Active Member

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    i would take MFC
     
  5. SLED

    SLED build an idiot proof device and someone else will

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    ASM
     
  6. Dopeskills

    Dopeskills Nothing can beat the Hyundai !!!

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    Assembly sucks REPEAT: Assembly sucks

    I've taken two semesters of it already. Anythime you try to do a real project it takes infinetly long to do the simplest task. Also, things are completely different depending on what processor you are using.

    Besides, C was created for the sole purpose of replacing assembly.
     
  7. skinjob

    skinjob Active Member

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    There's a lot of demand for device driver and embedded software programmers. If you've got asm classes that focus on that type of programming, then I'd go for those.
     
  8. Dopeskills

    Dopeskills Nothing can beat the Hyundai !!!

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    Most embedded programmers never use assembly. C/C++ is usually used in conjunction with some type of firmware.
     
  9. Astro

    Astro Code Monkey

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    My assembler prof was saying if you can do any assembly and actually enjoy doing it, you can make some pretty big bucks (probably $100k+). There's a lot of legacy assembler code and companies have been desperate to find assembler coders because their coders are getting old and retiring. And he wasn't referring to device drivers, but mainframes and gov't equipment.

    If you enjoy working with computers from a raw hardware level, then you will probably enjoy assembler (raw as in being able to directly talk to video memory, etc). If you enjoy coming up with creative programming tricks which reduce CPU cycles, then you will enjoy assembler. If you always wondered how viruses were created, then assembler is the way to go (you will be surprised to see how easy it is to make a mess of a computer). If you just want to be an uber-elite coder, then saying you're an assembler coder will definately impress the C/C++/C#/Java crowd.

    Granted, the applications you develop with assembler will be much much different then the applications you develop with MFC. You will want to think about that too and determine what you would enjoy learning about.

    Assembler: Intimate knowledge of how the computer hardware can be manipulated via code.

    MFC: Intimate knowledge of Windows application development. Although I'm talking out of my @ss on this one since I only have a few books on MFC of which I haven't read anything from.
     
  10. Astro

    Astro Code Monkey

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    Um... No.

    C (and C++) has a long history. But C's sole purpose was not to replace assembler. C does compile down to assembler, but this doesn't mean C was out to replace assembler.

    Assembler: low level language
    C/C++: high level language

    Two different classes of tools, and both will have thier place as development tools.

    I would also argue why we haven't seen assembler development completely wiped out because of C/C++.
     
  11. CyberBullets

    CyberBullets I reach to the sky, and call out your name. If I c

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    im leaning towards the asm side.

    i know the instructor, and i hear his class is a blast. u do some crazy ass projects (composing music, etc).

    i got a friend who also wrote an unformat command in assembly that worked to some degree (as long as the hdd was defragged b4 formatting).

    i hate programming for windows, as i cant use it at all on my linux box, so asm is what ill probably do.
     
  12. Astro

    Astro Code Monkey

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    I really think the prof will make a world of difference when it comes to assembler.

    My first pass at assembler was with an "old-school" prof. He was a good guy and knows his stuff, but his teaching style was a bit bland. I survived his C++ class but he was killing me with assembler (that and I had some family and work issues come up at the same time).

    He had a substitute come in to teach for the night. The guy was awesome. He was telling us how to scroll the screen (text screen) just by looping one shift instruction which pointed to video memory. He also dropped clues on some other cool programming tricks.

    Now when I took assembler the 2nd time, that prof was something else. His goal was not to just teach assembler, but to teach the concepts of assember - like whats up with memory address, memory storage issues, math operations and the CPU tricks involved, etc (he didn't focus on every little CPU instruction but only those he felt we needed).

    It also helped he was a first gen hacker and he originally learned assembler from actually applying it back in '84 and on.
     
  13. D1G1T4L

    D1G1T4L Active Member

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    i know a guy who worked as a mainframe programmer, he said it's boring as hell
     
  14. Kent

    Kent Guest

    Learning assembly is very good for you even if you never use it in a job. If you do enough of it, you get a much stronger grasp of registers, memory spaces, interfacing with hardware, etc. than you do just from reading about it. At my job, I currently write embedded code in C than runs on the VxWorks operating system -- I don't do any assembly, but having learned it really helps me out on a daily basis.

    Most of the GUI work at my company is still in MFC. It's definitely not a dead skill. One of those "Learn MFC in 21 Days" books might be enough for you to get the basics. There's really nothing earthshattering about it.
     
  15. CompiledMonkey

    CompiledMonkey New Member

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    I think just having ASM knowledge is great. Having quality knowledge about low level concepts would make coding in C/C++/C#/Java a breeze. I haven't touched ASM myself. A part of it is time, but mostly I just don't think I'm skilled enough to get to such a low level. It would be a huge jump for me. I'd like to check it out sometime though, to have some hands on experience with everything.
     
  16. BaZ

    BaZ 2004 ACC Champions

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    i had some experience with it in an into to cs class and am going more in depth into it with a computer engineering class. and let me tell you: assembly is a bitch of a whore. its very archaic and takes rediculous amounts of time to do even the simplest tasks. take mfc, at least there is some chance that you will be able to fully and effectively use it on the workplace. contrary to what people are saying, mfc is not hard at all to learn (much easier that win32 api)
     
  17. CyberBullets

    CyberBullets I reach to the sky, and call out your name. If I c

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    well since 75% of the comp 250 (mfc) failed their 1st assn & midterm im not leaning to it at all. plus the instuctor is a moron who cant speak english at all!!!:mad: :mad: :mad:
     
  18. BaZ

    BaZ 2004 ACC Champions

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    buy the book from microsoft press, read it, do examples, youll have it in 2-3 weeks
     
  19. Astro

    Astro Code Monkey

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    Yes and no.

    Yes it can be pain. Yes it can take many lines of code to do something remotely productive. Some flavors of assembler are better then others though (Ix86 is the beast of them all from the sounds of it - master Ix86 and you can pickup Motorolla and IBM assembler pretty easily).

    Will I ever use assembler again in my lifetime? Probably not. I've got a project comp project I did on my own (outside of school) which uses an assembler routine to talk to the joystick. At the time, I didn't fully understand what I was doing and why, but now I do. And I think thats a pretty good reason to take Assembler - to understand how a machine made up of various metals and plastics can be manipulated to do your bidding.

    CyberBullets: Sounds like you have a bad MFC prof. I don't like profs like that where they fail a good chunk of the class. You end up spending more time stressing out over passing the class then having fun with the language. Good luck...
     
  20. Dopeskills

    Dopeskills Nothing can beat the Hyundai !!!

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    :werd:

    I'm so glad to be finished with ASM. Now I'm moving on to C/C++ programming with VxWare/Tornado.
     

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