A&P Matte Painting anyone?

Discussion in 'Lifestyle' started by Venthor, Mar 13, 2009.

  1. Venthor

    Venthor OT Supporter

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    *EDIT: progress posted below*

    done using pics i have found on the net and a little bit of painting with a mouse

    [​IMG]
    bigger res

    if you guys want, i can show you the progress of the pic.

    first painting evar.. will try another pic with a more sophisticating angle

    c&c?
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2009
  2. adamlewis88

    adamlewis88 New Member

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    And thats a painting? Like real life hang it on your wall painting?
     
  3. yea is that a painting? it look digital
     
  4. Asherman

    Asherman New Member

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    Personally, I'd like to see how one of these is put together, step-by-step. I've been working to improve my PS skills, but stuff like this is still just beyond reach of my fingertips. Also if you would, please tell us how you achieve each of those steps.

    For the rest of youse, I'm primarily a painter with a strong interest in photography as art. Consequently I lurke here... alot. I probably check into OT Photos three times a day just to enjoy looking at the fine work you folks post up. My little PS (Nikon) is simple, as it needs to be for the simple skills of an old man (68). If I had the money, and more time in front of me, I'd get into DSLR. I noted today a photo in the "Random Pictures" thread that has been my screen saver now for almost a year. I learn little bits from most of you, and I really appreciate the tone of the group. The best? ()*()!! Anyone who could create those amazing photos of his children should be an international celebrity. That is all.
     
  5. Drunken Karnie Midget

    Drunken Karnie Midget In Yeo We Trust, All Others Pay Cash OT Supporter

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    It's a composite of digital images put together in PS... reading pwns you.
     
  6. Venthor

    Venthor OT Supporter

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    Like sociopath said, it is a digital composition of multiple images.

    @ asherman: here I will show you the different steps

    1
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    11
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2009
  7. iDrive

    iDrive OTAP crew. Muradadog crew. GO GATORS!

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    ffffuuuuuu
     
  8. Asherman

    Asherman New Member

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    I could follow much of that, and understand... I think how each step was accomplished. Where I have trouble is in understanding how you make each of the adjustments to the overall effect once a picture element is captured into a new layer. Pictures No. 1 and 2 look like what I generally get when attempting this sorta thing.

    Replacing the sky in No. 3, I think is done with an opacity of maybe 25% at the bottom, and 100% at the top. How do you do that? I'm working with the gradation tool, but don't know how to apply it to something like the sky.

    In No. 4, you've replaced the sky again... just a change of artistic vision, or does the preceding clouded sky still play a part? Also in No. 4 you add the bamboo frond in the upper left, a silhouette eve right, and replace the reflecting water with a blue field. I get the silhouette, no problem there. Getting a good and life-like leaf field is tough, but I think I can match your effort there. Why replace the reflective water?

    In No. 5, you've cloned the bamboo and somehow made it look natural. Is that just by cloning and a bit of smudge tool? The mountain and temple elements behind the silhouette have each been softened... aerial perspective in painting. How did you do that? I'm guessing they were on different layers and you adjusted the transparency of the two elements and then perhaps flattened them? How did you make the green around the grazing ox so seamless?

    In No. 6, you add a pagoda element and remove the bamboo. Was the new cloud element a part of the pagoda original, or is it a separate element? The separation of the mountains and sky in No. 6 is less natural than in either No. 5, or in No. 7... why, and how did you get it looking so natural. I'm plagued by a one or two pixal separation, and nothing seems to work as good as I think it should.

    In No. 7, the sky has been desaturated? The naturalness of the sky is finally looking very good, but how did you do that? I understand resizing and relocating the pagoda.

    No. 8 has some major changes and I'm not sure about the why and how on several of them. Was the bamboo removed because of the difficulty in keeping it looking natural with the evolving sky? The blue water field and ox feeding in a green field have been replaced by natural water and reflections of the mountains and other added elements. Is the water from a new and different photo? How did you get the reflections of the backgound elements into it?

    I think that in No. 9, you were mostly tweaking the opacity to fit your vision of what the image should look like. Is there something else going on there that I've missed? The shore line between the water and background would be difficult for me, and yet here it's pretty natural looking.

    In No. 10, adding the silhouettes of the bird flight is easy to understand and accomplish. Is the boatman the discarded element from No. 2 altered and rotated, or as seems more likely a completely new element from a different photograph? The sky adjustments in No. 10 are of particular interest. BTW, I like the addition of the moon to this one. The corners darken and the center becomes lighter and seems to help the palace element become distant and less distinct. How?

    Finally, in No. 11 we see the completed image. Now the mood is darker, and the clouded sky seems lowered with a 'shaft' of light illuminating the palace/temple element in the center of the background. How did you get that effect? Smudge tool to carry the cloud masses from one side of the image to the other along the top?

    Thank you for taking the time and trouble to help noobies like myself get a firm grip on PS. I'm looking forward to learning more. Today in Albuquerque we have a bit of weather, so today I'll be working a lot with PS trying to improve my skill set.
     
  9. Venthor

    Venthor OT Supporter

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    wow! i hope i can answer some of your questions below :naughty:

     
  10. xenon supra

    xenon supra OT Supporter

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    very cool :cool:
     
  11. Asherman

    Asherman New Member

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    Thank you Venthor for the additional information. All that should help me become more proficient with PhotoShop. At the moment I'm still up to my eyebrows cleaning and fixing old photos, mostly old snapshots, for the family. Whenever I get a chance, I'm trying to push back the frontiers of my ignorance and hopefully will eventually be able to create new images in PhotoShop. Your assistence has been like a mini-seminar, and is much appreciated. I'll try out some of the hints you've provided and see if I run into any problems. I look forward to seeing your next creation. This thread probably will become a classic for folks who want to learn how to put these composits together.
     
  12. Asherman

    Asherman New Member

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    [​IMG]

    OK, here is my first serious effort at a composite. I couldn't find the mask icon, but maybe it isn't a part of Essentials. If I can get the hang of this thingy maybe I'll upgrade to the latest full PS edition. I still haven't mastered how to get a properly sized photo in the right place here from Flicker. Oh well, old dogs and new tricks.


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2009
  13. iridium130

    iridium130 OT Supporter

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    At firs tI was :hsugh: :coolugh: but then I was :eek3::bigthumb:
     
  14. Asherman

    Asherman New Member

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    Just bear in mind that I'm a painter, not a photographer.
     
  15. MSTRBKR

    MSTRBKR New Member

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    I'm definitely giving that a go over my easter beak from uni - that's awesome.
     
  16. Venthor

    Venthor OT Supporter

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    thanks!

    Thanks a lot, I'm glad to hear that I could help you a bit!

    here you go:

    [​IMG]

    Not bad for your first attempt! I hope this might help to improve it:

    1: first thing that jumped out to me were the riders. are they ghosts? spirits or giants? with the transparency on, it suggests that they are ghosts from another dimension
    2: day time/night time: I can't tell if it is day or night. The background suggests that the scene is happening in the day. The dark sky with the dark clouds above the sky makes it look like there is a storm coming or it is night time. I would say you should either find a way to replace the "desert?" either with a picture that matches the sky above the castle or you should adjust the color of it and paint it to make it match.
    3: the sky doesnt look too bad. only thing I would try to improve is to make the shapes of the clouds to match each other. Right now they look like 2 separate scenes where you can tell the transition/blending.
    4: cliff and castle: the blending between those two elements doesnt look bad but I can tell that you have used the smudge tool to make the edges fit. good masking of the trees would make it more believeable.
    5: the lower right part with the burnt building. Blending between cliff and buildings were done using the smudge tool again. Those things are visible when not done right. You lose detail (for example the leaves of the trees) if you use it. If you want to use the smudge tool, use it to make a smooth transition and then paint in the details again. Otherwise it looks fake!
    I think that area consists of 2 building pictures. I can tell that the burnt city was from a more modern area because they use steel whereas the bright orange buildings were made of sand/stone etc.. They dont mix.
    6: the smoke should be more opaque at the bottom where it starts and when it rises, it mixes with clean air and it spreads out further. opacity is dropping. There is also a green tint at the bottom of the smoke.
    6: back to the riders... where are they located in the picture? when I look at the horse's feet, it looks like they were riding in the desert. When I look at their size though, it makes me think they are in the air and very close to the camera. Another thing to consider is to not CROP parts away like the sword of the hero.

    here the quickmask icon :x:
    [​IMG]

    :mamoru::x::bowdown: thanks!

    i looked at your paintings on flickr and they are friggin awesome!

    i cant wait to see the outcome!
     
  17. Asherman

    Asherman New Member

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    My version of PS Elements doesn't include the mask icon, nor a couple of those other tools as well. I'll have to look into getting an enhanced version of the software.

    The concept of this composite was a dream or vision of destruction, and though some elements evolved independently, the concept remained constant. The 'dreamer' inhabits a 'castle', that is also a metaphor for the 'self'. That is accentuated by being isolated, on a verdant cliff overlooking the rest of the world. I cropped away the desert sky and flipped it to get the far middle distance. and merged and adjusted several sky photos as background. The four riders were isolated from an illustration I found on the web when I couldn't find any photo elements that matched my concept. I like it better anyway, because as a drawing it contrasts with the realism of the rest of the image. I made the riders transparent, enlarged them to make them a major element of the composite and placed them in the sky as phantoms. The rider's accouterments were less important to my concept than the size, transparency and location of the element. The lower left ruins was indeed made up of two stuff taken from two photos. The older buildings were needed to match and link with the castles construction, but they just didn't convey the level of destruction I wanted to depict. I ended up with what you see, and that still didn't do it. I looked for smoke images, and nothing seemed right, so I looked for dust storms. That was too thick and opaque, so I thinned it down in transparency. The mix of day and night elements was decided on for two reasons: (1) to help convey a dreamlike quality, and (2) because I wasn't sure I could find and handle adjustments to very differently lighting in the source photos. Know your weaknesses, and work around it while working to become stronger in those areas. The moon element was a last minute addition, and the moon often figures in my paintings. Merging the moon element with the very different colored sky with a different value was beyond my skills. That old smudge tool is a crutch I know, but I had to use what I have at this juncture. What you see, in my own eye, is a flawed version of my intent.

    Your detailed analysis was very helpful, and I'll be making other attempts. I hope you'll be patient with my clumsy efforts. Can you give me some alternatives to using the smudge tool to meld two images seamlessly?

    BTW Thanks for adjusting the image size so people here can make out the image without squinting. That's another thing I need to learn how to do. I'm beginning to wonder if I'll have everything learned before I checkout permanently. What's checkout time again?
     
  18. Asherman

    Asherman New Member

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    [​IMG]

    Here's my second attempt, "The Tycoon". Actually, I had a better one but hit the wrong button and lost almost a full day's effort. Oh well. This one is less complex in concept, but was a good exercise in matching elements in a more natural way. I still haven't the skills to invent footprints in the sand, or really great shadows.

    Okay, how do I get the Flicker hosted image to a size where youse guys can actually see what the image looks like?
     
  19. Venthor

    Venthor OT Supporter

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    Hi there again!
    I dont know why but with the image address provided, I can't find your flickr account like last time..... weird.
    All you have to do to post a big pic is
    1. go to your flickr account
    2. click your picture
    3. on top of your picture there will be a button that says "all sizes"
    4. choose the size you want to display here
    5. right click big picture and copy image address
    6. post it here
    7. ???
    8. profit


    I cant wait to see it bigger :x:
     
  20. Asherman

    Asherman New Member

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    [​IMG]Damn, that was hard.
     

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