macro / andrew -- crystalline fructose

Discussion in 'Fitness & Nutrition' started by michael, Dec 3, 2007.

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  1. michael

    michael FLORIDA > *

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    same shit as HFCS?

    better alternative?
     
  2. Genghis.Tron

    Genghis.Tron New Member

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    Better alternative for what ?
    HFCS is basically corn syrup that's high in fructose but it still contains some other sugars depending on the type you're getting. It's a cheap way of getting something really sweet as fructose is the sweetest sugar.
    From wiki
     
  3. michael

    michael FLORIDA > *

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    is crystalline fructose a better alternative to HFCS? <-that is my question
     
  4. Genghis.Tron

    Genghis.Tron New Member

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    A better alternative for what ? <-that is my question
    Health ? Replenishing liver glycogen ? Promoting anabolism pwo ?
     
  5. michael

    michael FLORIDA > *

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    health.

    is HFCS a good sugar to use PWO?

    can you explain the pros/cons/differences between glucose, fructose, dextrose and sucrose?
     
  6. Drewski

    Drewski New Member

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    IIRC, fructose replenishes kidney glycogen stores while dextrose replenishes muscle glycogen
     
  7. Genghis.Tron

    Genghis.Tron New Member

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    You mean liver, not kidney. Unless you're really, really strange.
     
  8. Drewski

    Drewski New Member

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    I am strange, but thats neither here nor there.

    and I know exactly went I meant thank you very much....


















    and I did mean liver :o
     
  9. michael

    michael FLORIDA > *

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    so what's best during the day (snacks, carb meals, etc) and what's best post-workout?
     
  10. Genghis.Tron

    Genghis.Tron New Member

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    Fructose has to go through the liver to be metabolized and it's better at replenishing liver glycogen although it also does so in the muscle, other kinds of carbs are better at this though. Because it has to go through the liver, it doesn't really have an impact on insulin and it is suggested to those who have diabetes for that reason. HFCS is linked to health problems because it's found in high amounts in shitty food. In "real" food, it's really hard to get. A piece of fruit is usually about half fructose, half glucose I think so they contain like 5-8 g of fructose. If we assume that it all goes to the liver, then eating like 8-10 pieces of fruit would completely fill it if it's empty and then it gets converted to fat, so it would be hard to get there with real food.

    I don't think there would be a difference as far as health goes between HFCS and fructose alone. Both are almost only fructose and are almost free of nutrients.

    Sucrose is glucose + fructose, glucose and dextrose are basically the same thing. Relying on pure sugar like this for nutrition isn't good IMO. It's nutrient-free. People on BB.com are afraid of fruits because it's making them fat but they drink dextrose . Go figure. It would be pretty simple to find some food that contains simple sugars and that at least contain some nutrients. Cereals usually contain added vitamins and minerals, milk has a high GI, many nutrients and some quality protein and so on. Yogurt (whey is usually added and it contains almost no lactose which is a plus for those who are intolerant) + cereals is my favorite workout food !
     
  11. Genghis.Tron

    Genghis.Tron New Member

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    It always depends on the amount. I wouldn't get pure fructose or HFCS at any time though. Liver glycogen level is a determinant factor of anabolism though, so getting some fruits with a higher fructose content will have some benefits if you're restricting carbs.
     
  12. penisbird

    penisbird Guest

  13. michael

    michael FLORIDA > *

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    so what about me adding 75g of carbs via WMS + 60g whey protein post w/o?
     
  14. el es dee

    el es dee ...through a cloud of chalk and the midst of pain.

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    thats good. because iirc WMS would replenish muscle glycogen. consider adding in extra leucine as well
     
  15. macro

    macro New Member

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    crystalline fructose is fructose
    HFCS is 80/20 or 90/10 fructose/glucose


    their is nothing wrong the adding small amounts of fructose to reglycogenate the liver.
     
  16. el es dee

    el es dee ...through a cloud of chalk and the midst of pain.

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    would the logic here be that it spares glucose for the muscle?
     
  17. macro

    macro New Member

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    its just more efficient at liver glycogen restoral in a fasted state and does not spike insulin. So for instance taking small amounts of fructose prior to "empty stomach" cardio (am) will optimize the lipolytic environment.

    after exercise glucose is generally more effective at restoring liver glycogen.

    ideally fructose intake should not exceed 15 grams per day. Higher fructose intake is associated with impaired insulin sensitivity. Fructose is used to induce diabetes in animals.
     
  18. Genghis.Tron

    Genghis.Tron New Member

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    If your question is if you'd be better to take 75 g of WMS instead of 75 g of fructose, then yes, it would be better. I recall a study showing that there was no advantage of going over something like 25 g of protein PWO as far as protein synthesis goes. I don't know what you eat before though so depending on how long you wait after eating to train, maybe it'd be better to split that shake before/after.
     
  19. Genghis.Tron

    Genghis.Tron New Member

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    15 g ? Where did you get that figure ?
     
  20. michael

    michael FLORIDA > *

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    so stop being so damn complicated..

    wtf should i have post-w/o.
     
  21. macro

    macro New Member

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    dextrose

    there may be some evidence for WMS (but at this point reccomend dextrose)
     
  22. macro

    macro New Member

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    historical data, though there is certainly peripheral clincial support for it. prior to sucrose and HFCS inclusion in EVERYTHING (which started in the beginning of the last century and peaked about 10 years ago), average intake of fructose was 15-20g (most of which was from fruit, which has phytonutrients that tend to offset at least some of the issues with overconsumption).
     
  23. Genghis.Tron

    Genghis.Tron New Member

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    I found a study where you probably got it from. They don't say that we shouldn't exceed 15g/day, just that a naturally occuring intake is about 15g/day and shouldn't be a problem. But "the data in human is less clear" than in animals.
    Fructose, weight gain, and the insulin resistance syndrome,
    Sharon S Elliott,Nancy L Keim,Judith S Stern,Karen Teff,and Peter J Havel
     
  24. michael

    michael FLORIDA > *

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    dextrose = maltodextrin, right?

    guess i should buy some.. bleh.

    what kind of carbs are recommended throughout hte day as part of a normal diet?
     
  25. macro

    macro New Member

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    maltodextrin is glucose polymers, higher doses of them tend to cause vomiting and stomach issues. Generally reccomend dextrose (corn sugar).

    complex, preferably with decent fiber contents (though you can always add your own fiber- oat fiber tabs are good and pretty cheap)
     
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