LOTR questions...

Discussion in 'Entertainment' started by Porsche_GT2, Mar 7, 2004.

  1. Porsche_GT2

    Porsche_GT2 Guest

    1. What happens after frodo and bilbo sail away to the west? Does the series end like that? (be detailed if youd like)

    2. Where did the elves, wizards, and other races of middle earth come from?

    3. Is it true that Tolken based the LOTR series after WWII. Saramon(sorry for the name spelling) being hitler, the fellowship being the Allies, germany being mordor? I cant remember any other simies.
     
  2. Surgie

    Surgie Mein Führer, I can walk!

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    I'm gonna be leaving out a lot so hopefully the other LOTR guys will come in and fill in what I missed, this is just my limited understanding of these things ;)

    1. In the books there's a LOT more that wasn't in the movie regarding Saruman & the Scouring of the Shire, although the actual end of the book is fairly similar with them going into the west and Sam chilling with Rose and what not.

    2. Elves - http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/e/elves.html, The wizards (or Istari) came around 1000 years into the third age to help in the fight against Sauron, basically anything you wanna know can be found at the encyclopedia of arda... http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/

    3. From my understanding most of the stuff in LOTR deals more with Tolkien's experiences in the first world war and the overtaking of the green pastures of the english countryside by industry.
     
  3. Kansas

    Kansas Rise and destroy.

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    I am sure more of my fellow Tolkien scholars will fill in the rest...

    1. Pretty much life goes on in Middle Earth. Samwise, Merry, and Pippin become leaders within The Shire under the protectorate of King Aragorn, who joined the two Kingdoms. Eowyn and Faramir wed and rule over Ithilien, which has been rebuilt. Gimli and Legolas get their fellow dwarves and elves to help the men of Gondor rebuild Minas Tirith--even better than before. Gimli's love for the Glittering Caves (beneath Helm's Deep) prompt him to build a dwarf dwelling and he comes to be known as Gimli, Lord of the Glittering Caves. All the while Legolas and Gimli travel together exploring the deepest dwarf caves and the most beautiful of elf forests... Eventually they also sail across the Sundering Seas... Aragorn and Arwen have children and he rules justly and mightily for years beyond those of normal men...

    2. Elves were created by Iluvatar (the God figure in Tolkien's world), and were meant to be the first beings on Middle Earth. However, Aule, one of the lesser gods created beings of his own (the dwarves), but Iluvatar came unto him and told him that the dwarves would sleep until after the elves had awakened on middle earth. Surgie's comment about the wizards is accurate.

    3. Tolkien never meant for his stories to be an allegory, but it is difficult to see it otherwise. One of Tolkien's sons was actually in the war and the Frodo character is representative of him.
     
  4. WERUreo

    WERUreo Imua!

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    1. Also, Samwise eventually also travels to the Undying Lands, but this is only after living a long life in the Shire. I believe what initially prompts him to leave Middle-Earth is the death of Rosie... Pippin and Merry travel to Gondor either after Aragorn dies or just before, and I believe they too are buried in Gondor. After Aragorn dies, Arwen travels to Lorien, to the place where she and Aragorn first met, and there she dies also. Although it isn't specifically mentioned, Bilbo and Frodo most likely also die in Valinor. So basically, everyone dies, except for Legolas, of course.

    2. Not mentioned were Men, who were the second children of Illuvatar. They were awakened some time after the Elves. The Orcs were created by Melkor. I believe they were a perverted form of Elves or something like that. Don't know much about the origin of other races, like Hobbits or Trolls or the Eagles.

    3. I don't know anything about the origins of LOTR in Tolkien's mind....
     
  5. Acesn8s

    Acesn8s The Deadman's Hand

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    Tolkien has said in inteviews that his work isn't allegorical.
     
  6. Joe_Cool

    Joe_Cool Never trust a woman or a government. Moderator

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    technicality. It's highly symbolic, but it's not allegorical in the same sense as George Orwell's Animal Farm, where a is directly analogous to A, b -> B, c -> C, etc.

    But you can definitely see deep and rich symbols in the text.
     
  7. Porsche_GT2

    Porsche_GT2 Guest

    Thnxs guys, is there another book after return of the king that finishes the story where you guys answered my number 1 question? Or does it say that in the the end of return of the kind? I wasnt quite sure on the allegorical part, but like Joe said you can definitely see some symbolic figures in the books. Is there a book before the hobbit? i read that book and have to say it was much fun to read. Jackson needs to make a film of that one for sure! You guys dont mind if i keep posting questions here do ya?
     
  8. Joe_Cool

    Joe_Cool Never trust a woman or a government. Moderator

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    The Silmarillion is the history of Middle Earth, from the creation of the universe to the War of the Ring. And it's a good read.

    There's nothing after Return of the King except the Appendices at the end of the book that tell what happened to everybody and also a lot of background information.
     
  9. 9volt

    9volt If you see me running, try to keep up

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    Are there still battles?

    Like, what becomes of the Rohirrim and the armies of Gondor? Do they just sit around and twiddle their thumbs now waiting for something to happen? Or is there still some threat?
     
  10. Kansas

    Kansas Rise and destroy.

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    Well, sorta... They just go on through their lives... You have to remember that the Rohirrim are an agricultural people and so their lives are pretty simple. When moved to battle they will most certainly defend their land. The people of Gondor are from a slightly higher form of civilization and have an army ready in case of attack (whenever it might arise). I am pretty sure than some Easterlings or Southrons might attack sometime, but Tolkien never mentions that.
     
  11. anjego

    anjego Invading your economy!

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    i thought once the hobbits were in Valinor they're immortal.

    also, do the elves ever return from west? do the elves left in middle earth ever leave?
     
  12. WERUreo

    WERUreo Imua!

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    People assume that the hobbits who went to Valinor become immortal. That is what I assumed when I first read the book. But, that is not accurate. I have not read this myself, but in another thread, someone mentioned that JRR Tolkien himself wrote somewhere that the hobbits do die in Valinor. The Undying Lands are only called that because that is where the Elves, the Maiar, and the Valar live. They are all immortal beings. The hobbits that were given to honor to accompany the Elves to Valinor did not become immortal when they arrived. They were allowed to go there to live out the rest of their lives. There was nothing left in Middle-Earth for the ring bearers. They were forever changed by the One Ring. Going to Valinor was supposed to be a way for them to live peacefully until their eventual death.

    Although there isn't much written about events that take place after The Return of the King, it is pretty much assumed that the Elves in the West never return to Middle-Earth. They have no real reason to. As for Elves who remained in Middle-Earth leaving, there is one account of this happening. After Aragorn eventually dies, Legolas builds a ship and takes Gimli to Valinor. Whether or not the rest of the Elves leave is never really said.
     
  13. toker

    toker Guest

    very good read but also very difficult

    and no the elves will never return after they go to the west, and the elves that stayed behind well never get the chance to go.
     
  14. 9volt

    9volt If you see me running, try to keep up

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    what if they just built a ship like legolas did and go on their own?
     
  15. Pro Street

    Pro Street New Member

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    there is only one way to the Undying lands, and that's through the Grey havens. I suppose they could build a ship, provided they used that channel and were allowed to go.

    The 2nd half of the book Rotk will give you a good insight.
     
  16. RMNIXON

    RMNIXON New Member

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    There is a brief history of the Wizards or "Istari" in the book "Unifinished" tales. It gives an account of when the wizards first came to middle earth, and the "blue" wizards who disappeared into the east. Gandalf the Grey, Saruman the white, and Radagast who befriended the wild creatures and was often mocked by the ever arrogant Saruman, who was supossed to help save middle earth as Gandalf eventually did but turned to evil! Most people think of the wizards as being human, but they are not identified by Tolkien as such.
     
  17. Joe_Cool

    Joe_Cool Never trust a woman or a government. Moderator

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    They are definitely not human. They are Maiar - the lesser powers. Second tier angels, so to speak.
     
  18. Zero

    Zero Well-Known Member

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    why can tom bombadilliondilkionlknollool wear the ring and not vanish? and how come he can see frodo when he puts the ring on and tries to sneak out? tom scares me. he seems like a nice man. but seriously... what's with all the singing?
     
  19. Joe_Cool

    Joe_Cool Never trust a woman or a government. Moderator

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    The Ring has no power over Bombadil. My theory is that the Ring doesn't actually make you invisible, but makes your enemies fail to see you. Its power is over their minds (we already know this), but not over the laws of physics. Otherwise, how would the Ring be able to make your clothes and the things you're carrying invisible, but not the road you're stepping on or a wall you lean against? But since Bombadil is more powerful than the Ring, it can't affect him.

    Another thing: If the Ring has no power over Bombadil, he can't be a Maia, since it was made by a Maia, and affected all the other Maiar we saw (Sauron, Gandalf, Saruman). So whatever he is, he's of a higher order than they are.

    And I think he sings because he's happy and laid back. He's got a hot wife, and no worries.
     
  20. Acesn8s

    Acesn8s The Deadman's Hand

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    I always see Tom Bombadil as Tolkien alluding to the old saying, "There's always some out there better than you."

    He could also be the physical manifestation of the land/earth.
     
  21. Kansas

    Kansas Rise and destroy.

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    I have always thought of Bombadil as being a manisfestation of Iluvatar, himself.
     
  22. Surgie

    Surgie Mein Führer, I can walk!

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    I thought the ring shifted them into the ethereal plane that the wraith's are in as well? The good thing about magical devices is they 'know' what they need to take somewhere / make invisible, and won't do it to the entire world :)

    As far as Bombadil goes, I just let him be the vague character that he is :)
     
  23. Zero

    Zero Well-Known Member

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    ok... i thought it might be his jacket or his boots that did it...
     
  24. toker

    toker Guest

    that is how i always saw it too, a kind of "mother nature" only a male.
     
  25. toker

    toker Guest

    :werd:
     

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