GUN Looking at buying a new bolt action rifle for target work need help...

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by minus, Nov 11, 2009.

  1. minus

    minus Damn you, Damn the Broccoli, and Damn the Wright B

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    First things first I am right handed and left eye dominant. I have come to accept this.

    I'm looking for assistance with a few things.

    1 Caliber
    .223 vs .308

    I have a shitload of once fired .223 brass once fired from a police range I don't want this to be the only deciding factor. .223 Is good out to 600 yards? the longest public range is 200 in this state.

    2 Brand
    Savage vs Remington vs ...?


    3 Glass I know you should spend at least what you spent on the rifle on glass. I am looking at an inexpensive scope to start off with for now does anyone make a competitively priced combo anymore I know savage used to.


    If I'm missing anything or you guys need to ask me any questions to figure out what I should get please ask.
     
  2. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

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    a rem 700 in .223 would be a solid shooter up to 600 yards. plus if you're limited to 200, why go .308? :dunno:

    is the rifle gonna be used for hunting?
     
  3. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

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    actually since you have a lot of once fired .223 you might want to consider .223AI like market garden did.

    IIRC he said he was shooting out to 600 or 640 yards and ringing steel no problem :dunno:



    you have to ask yourself "what am i gonna do with this rifle". if you're going to be punching paper, .223 is plenty.

    if you're going to be punching paper and maybe punching holes in other things, i'd consider .223AI or even .308
     
  4. minus

    minus Damn you, Damn the Broccoli, and Damn the Wright B

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    I'd like to get some steel and ring it but that is another thing entirely. There isn't much of anywhere really shoot long distance around here.
     
  5. minus

    minus Damn you, Damn the Broccoli, and Damn the Wright B

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    For hunting I have my shotgun with fiber sights and a lever action in .44 mag that will take most animals that walk North America.
     
  6. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

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    if its just general plinking and some minor long range stuff you can look into .223AI. it'll shoot .223 as well, so its sort of a two for one. hard to beat that.
     
  7. minus

    minus Damn you, Damn the Broccoli, and Damn the Wright B

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    Are there any factory rifles in .223AI?
     
  8. bulzeye

    bulzeye Meatatarian

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    how cheap are you looking to go on a scope?
     
  9. I am not aware of anyone making a factory .223AI rifle. As for ammo, there's no factory ammo either, you'll have to fireform your cases and handload them. That said, if you're realistically only going to be shooting inside 200 yards, the .223 is more than enough, and there's little reason to go through the added expense of setting a gun up in .223AI. Even out to 600 yards, I don't know if I'd really be enthusiastic about choosing .223AI over standard .223. Really, the advantage in drop and drift isn't a huge factor at those distances. This past weekend, people with standard .223s had no trouble making hits on the steel at 500+ yards. In light of this, I don't really think it's worth it to have to load your brass, fire it (fireform), and then do it all again now that it's .223AI. If you had plans to shoot past 600 on a regular basis, then I'd say to go for it.

    As for .223 vs .308... Again, I doubt you'll see any difference at all with the distances you'll be likely to shoot. In fact, inside 200 yards if you compare a 77gr SMK load in .223 to a 175gr SMK load in .308 you'll see LESS drop with the .223 and not even an inch more wind drift. You'll have cheaper factory ammo with the .223, cheaper reloads, and far less recoil. At 600 the drop numbers are almost identical between those loads, though the wind drift numbers have opened up a bit to favor the .308.

    As far as scopes go, Laurel is running a Bushnell Elite 4200 on her 700 and it's not a bad scope. I think she paid like $570 for it. People also report having good luck with the 3200 series, and they're a little less money too. Really, there are a number of decent mid-price optics choices, and I'm sure someone like phrozen can explain it all to you better than I can.
     
  10. I'm sure there's stuff I left out, so if you have any questions, just ask.
     
  11. skeletor25rs

    skeletor25rs Yetis & Deer

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    If you're just shooting from a bench why don't you just shoot left handed to ease your wrong-eyed-ness? It might feel funny at first, but it's not that hard to get used to.
     
  12. phoenixTX

    phoenixTX New Member

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    I was looking for a budget scope for my Rem700 in .243Win and ended up with a Bushnell Elite 3200 3-9x40. $200 scope and is quite nice for the money. You can find the 3200 Elite 10x mil-dot around $220 as well.

    If you are only punching paper at fairly close distances and not using it for hunting, then it sounds like .223 is the way to go. The fact that you already have a bunch of brass to start loading is a nice bonus. The only reason to even consider .308 is just because it's what everyone else does. Well, everyone else that doesn't have MG and phrozen giving them other ideas ;)
     
  13. skeletor25rs

    skeletor25rs Yetis & Deer

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    I love my .308, but would much rather shoot my .22-250.
    But I think shooting paper is a waste of ammo :run:
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2009
  14. fatmoocow

    fatmoocow bored OT Supporter

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    223 all the way. Long term a Remington is going to be better. When you decide to upgrade you will continue to use the same action. There's way more options for the 700 than a savage.

    For punching paper I like a slightly higher magnification so you can see your shots. 6x-16x is nice. My advice on the scope is grab something for $200 right now. I wouldn't drop 1k+ on a scope until I had shot for a while and knew exactly what I wanted.
     
  15. phrozenlikwid

    phrozenlikwid New Member

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    The Nikon Buckmaster 4.5x14 isn't too terrible as far as cheap glass goes.....


    You should also look into a Howa. Barreled actions can be had on the cheap.
     
  16. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

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    :werd:

    its SO much easier to correct to be shooting from your dominant eye than it is trying to use your dominant hand.
     
  17. Ebtromba

    Ebtromba Active Member

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    I'm in a similar boat as the TS.

    that I may hunt with it someday is the big reason I'm leaning toward .308

    phrozen and others, what is the word on the new savages? accustock and accutrigger and such.

    the reason why I ask is that I will likely not mod the fuck out of or otherwise customize this rifle, so I am looking for the best out of the box value.

    I know thats not at all what you do, but what would that be? rem700? tikka? savage?

    the purpose of it for me will be punching paper out to 150, and the potential for deer hunting at some later date (cousin goes all the time, and since i'm .mil I get free hunting licenses)
     
  18. vwpilot

    vwpilot New Member

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    The Savage is a great rifle and out of the box, I think its better than the 700. I have both and the Savage Accutrigger is a ton better than the Remmy out of the box. Accuracy is excellent too.

    My stock 10fp with HS stock can shoot 1/2 inch groups when I do my job (not as often as I'd like) and I've rung steel easily out to 750 yards.

    Only thing done to it is the barrel was shortened to 20" and threaded for my suppressor.

    I was using a Millet 4-16 TRS scope which you can get for about $350, has adjustable turrets and mil dot reticle. Great scope for the money. I have an IOR on it now and it is noticably better, but also was 4 times the price, but for the money I dont think you can beat the Milletts.
     
  19. Ebtromba

    Ebtromba Active Member

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    looks like savages have a 1/10 twist and rem700s have a 1/12 twist

    which would be more desirable for 175gr SMK?
     
  20. They'll both work fine. Read this, it has tons of info:

    http://www.6mmbr.com/308win.html
     
  21. Ebtromba

    Ebtromba Active Member

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    cool.

    was pondering either this http://www.savagearms.com/16fcss.htm

    or this http://www.savagearms.com/11fcns.htm


    waiting to phrozen to come shit all over the accustock
     
  22. vwpilot

    vwpilot New Member

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    You're close to me too, we can arrange to shoot and you're welcome to try out my Savage.
     
  23. Ebtromba

    Ebtromba Active Member

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    cool man.
     
  24. phrozenlikwid

    phrozenlikwid New Member

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    Have not used the Accustock, or even seen it, so can't shit all over it yet.

    In general...... Most factory stocks suck fucking immense amounts of dick (especially the old Savage tupperware). If they get ergos right, they completely bork construction, or vice versa. It's like you can't have both.

    As for the Accutrigger..... meh, it's not too terrible. I personally prefer a worked over factory Remmy trigger, but you could do worse. The blade thing fucks with me, and I find them to be a little "spongy" myself. Likely personal preference though, as I've seen some guys get by just fine with them.





    I'm by no means a Salvage aficionado, and would prefer a Remington (or even Howa) in most cases. The Savages do shoot though, and people are having good luck with them.

    How mechanically inclined are you?
     
  25. Ebtromba

    Ebtromba Active Member

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    that depends on what the task is
     

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