Long ass post, with some background.. No Cliff notes..

Discussion in 'Vaginarium' started by To0C0oL, Feb 7, 2006.

  1. To0C0oL

    To0C0oL New Member

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    Seems this is off-topic and all of us are usually bored out of our minds on here, I'll give you a little bit og a long read that I need some opinions on...

    I know hardly a damn person on here know's me, but I dont look, nor act my age and I matured very, very quickly.. so.. On with my long ass story..

    When I was ~11 or so, I met this chick through my dad and the Navy.. She was ~13, we'll call her "A".. We hung out almost all the time, never really did much "sexual" or anything like that mainly cause well, I/we didnt really know better/how.. About the age of ~15, I met another chick, she was ~16 "B".. We click off, start a pretty damn good relationship.. So, when I was 17, Christmas eve, I ask "B" that big question.. Stupid? Maybe, but it felt right... She says yes.. Sweet.. Through all this, I'm still very close friends, I guess you could say "best" friends with "A"..

    So... We were "engaged" for about a month and a half, nothing really changed in our relationship, still strong, ETC.. 2 days before valentines day, she decides to tell me that she is joining the military and heading out.. I was "ok" with it, until I found out that she joined awhile ago and didnt bother to tell me untill 3 days before leaving.. That pissed me off.. Concerned me a little.. Then she tells me "I'm not sure if we should try and keep us going. I dont think I'm ready for this"......

    So, we break the engagement off, hardly ever talk to eachother, but we are still friendly.. So, that fucks me up pretty damn good... In comes friend "A".. All of a sudden, she is extremly "interested" in me.. I guess you could say she was kinda catching me on the rebound, but I fell for it.. We go on and on for a good couple of months, mainly just having "fun".. So, 1 day, I simply ask her about a "committed" relationship.. And she practically shits on my chest.. So that puts me in a nice little stage of not giving a fuck, not doin anything, almost depression, I guess you could say..

    So, I finally get the fuck up, and soldier the fuck on.. I grow my hair out, look like complete shit, not caring, drink my ass off and pretty much just do wtf I wanted.. That goes on for a couple of months.. Somehow, even with a damn mullet, beard and lookin like complete shit, I found a chick I clicked with pretty good and didnt seem to care what I looked like.. So we get a little bit serious for a few months, have some fun.. Here comes september.. I bring her lunch at work 1 saturday, we talk for a little while, eat lunch.. As I'm gettin up to leave, she says " Tuesday is my last day here".. I was confused, but said ok... "Whats the reason?".. And.. She goes... "Well, Friday I'm moving back to Kansas city".. Well.. Lets take another shit on the nice guy why dont we..?

    So, here comes chick "A" again..We talked during "C", but thats about it.. She fucks with me for a month or 2, then finally I say fuck it, cut the hair, clean up, blah blah blah.. Still friends with her, fuckin around with her, not expecting shit out of it.. Pretty much just become "best" friends, with alot of benefits..

    So, here is where this wonderfull life fucking story I'm telling takes us too.. So, its mid november and a few friends of mine are starting up a website, XXXXX.com (dont want to cause anything by trying to "plug" our website).. So, we get some people on the website, start goin out with a couple of them... So here is where I meet chick "D".. We hang out with the "group" a few times, talk alot ETC.. So, we start hangin out 1 on 1.. About this time, Chick "A" moves alll the way across the country, so thats over with.. I can finally get that out of my life and move on..

    So, we, "D" start becoming pretty close.. I literally start fallen ass over tea kettle for this woman.. So, I man up and tell her.. She seems sketchy about it, says she really isnt ready and all that and isnt lookin for a relationship.. Which is cool, I got no problem with it easing it in, seeing what happens, 1 step at a time.. All I asked was for her to keep an open mind..
    So, after that little talk, we start hangin out together, almost every day.. Thats cool, Its awesome, I'm having a good time and I absolutely love hangin out with her.. So a couple weeks later, I throw that question out again, get the same response.. Which again, didnt bother me that much.. So she tells me "I dont see you as anything more then a very close friend".. Which, again, I honestly have no problem with.. So I simply ask "What is it about me?" And she says "Nothing, I just dont see it."

    Ok, so ladies and gentleman, this is what bothers me.. How can there not be a reason..? I mean, Ive been debating with myself weather or not I should have put her on the spot so fast, but I mean, I'm not 1 to hold back and it was killin me holdin it back..

    Seems most of you dont know me, I damn near always have an answer for everything.. But I am honestly confused as fuck.. Ive never clicked with anyone this well, not my fiance, none of them and quite frankly, I honestly dont think I ever will considering I'm getting more and more pissed off at the stupid ass people in this world..

    So, my question to you all is, WTF is going on...? She tells me how awesome I am, how great I am, all the time.. A few times while she was drunk, We've fooled around, kissed, touched eachother and I had to tell her "no" because I couldnt do it while she was drunk and me sober.. Now some say when someone is drunk, their true feelings come out.. I dont really believe that.. Some say that she is "scared" to do anything with me, so while drunk, she loosens up and just lets it go..

    She had some money issues, she needed a car, so I fronted/loaned the cash to buy her a car, fixed some small issues for her.. Ever since then, Ive slowly noticed that we havnt been hangin out as much.. Also, she lost her job a while ago, got into a big fight with her family, so I took her away for awhile, took her out to eat, talked with her and let her stay over my house for a little while..

    About 2 weeks later, my father gets laid off, I get fired on the same day.. The next day, my Car blows a battery and catches on fire.. Then, the next day, I take a shower, get out, lean over the toilet to pick up my towel and I fall through the damn upstairs floor, I guess the tub/drain has been leaking for awhile and rotted out the floor around the tub and toilet.. So I'm pretty down in the shitter that day, ask her to hang out cause I'm calm and feel like nothing can go wrong around her.. I practically have to put a damn guilt trip on her to hang out.. So some more bullshit comes up and I am honestly on the verge of packing up my shit and heading to my grandfathers cabin in Maine for awhile..

    So, I ask her to come over and watch some movies with me, I'll make her dinner and talk.. She says she is "tired and doesnt feel like doing anything and is staying home"...

    I'm seeing the pattern here, but I dont want to believe the pattern.. She sees me as her "best friend" which I know is allready probally the biggest fucking whole I could possibly have to dig myself out of..

    So WTF is you all opinions after readin my short novel....?
     
  2. Miss Red

    Miss Red New Member

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    I say go to the cy yourself for a few weeks and get your shit together.
     
  3. huntz0r

    huntz0r New Member

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    There is another pattern here. In each of these scenarios it sounds like you were the one trying to escalate the relationship on an emotional level.

    "B" - You ask her to marry you. Did she pester you for months to propose or did you decide for yourself that you would? Did she ever show the slightest signs before you proposed that she wasn't ready for such a commitment? She's 18 and just getting out of the house and you try to tie her down with a ring... not gonna happen.

    "A" - You ask her for a committed relationship when she had no interest in one. If she'd had interest, again, she would be the one asking.

    "C" - Maybe nothing more than bad timing... although, if she was into you enough, she might have managed not to move. (I don't want to assume too much here without details.)

    "D" - You're gone over her way before she is gone over you. The only mistage bigger than that is telling her about it.

    You keep coming on too heavy and getting serious too fast. You have to let them come to you. If you chase, they retreat.

    I'm not trying to be hard on you... if you knew my history you'd know I am coming from a position of complete empathy. Your "B" is similar to a recent situation of mine... and I guarantee I did a far worse job than you did. (I haven't posted too much introspection here; maybe I will chronicle the whole ordeal someday. Frankly, though, it embarrasses me now to look back on all my horrific mistakes.)

    Let me suggest you read this: http://www.friendzoned.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1

    This is PocoDiablo's site, I will plug it for him so he doesn't have to for once. Lots of good advice here, try to keep an open mind and think about it though, because I have a feeling it will chafe you at first. :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2006
  4. PocoDiablo

    PocoDiablo New Member

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    Hey dude,

    Well, it's simple really. You're not playing "the game" (as you mentioned in your other thread; just poking fun at you! ;) ) that women expect. Let's think about this a little bit.

    So far, from what you tell me, you like to "tell" women how you feel about them, and you'll be damned that you think you should have to do something different. You expect them to like you nonetheless. Well, guess what? That just doesn't work *except* for with your mother and sister(s). It's an inappropriate expression of emotion for a woman. It's what a child does - it's not what a mature, confident, and challenging adult male does. Your expectations are backwards. Think about it like this: A gay guy friend comes up to you and tells you he likes you. Are you suddenly going to turn gay because he said that? Of course not. And, in fact, you'd probably be fucking freaked out. So, in that regards, knock it off! Women are feeling the same way, and joining the military to get away from you. This is a bad sign that you are doing something really wrong. :( But don't worry ... most of us have done this at some time or other, too. No one is perfect.

    I also seem to notice that you are getting advice from those same women. Hey, guess what? Most women cannot figure themselves out, so why would you take advice from them? (Yes, MANY women can give you good advice, but not MOST.) You need to talk to guys who know what they are doing. You need to go make friends with the guys who you see picking up on women - successfully of course - and asking them what they know. You get to go through all the macho BS and figure out what is really going on.

    And what is it? Well, stop acting like a child. You ask a woman out on a date. You let her know, without saying it, that you have romantic expectations. Don't be FRIENDS with her first. In fact, don't be friends at ALL. Unless she's willing to help you drop a tranny and change the oil, she's not really a friend now, is she?

    You have to show her you are an adult, you expect an adult relationship, and that is what you want. If you don't get it, then pull back. You also have to become more of an adult. You are still very unskilled, unpracticed at successful relationships, as evidenced by getting dumped every time. This means you are dating women who are in control (and you are clueless) and this means ... yeah, you're the child, she's the mother. You need to realize that you have to be in control. You have to tell her "No" every once in a while. You have to make your own decisions. You have to be EQUALS and not let her run your life. You have to be a gentleman - polite, funny, calm, cool, charming.... you cannot be some simpering puppy, chasing after her. You need to be the guard dog that she trusts to never bite her.

    There is so much more to it than that. You have to start acting more secure - no more emotional & serious conversations. Save that BS for your friends, your internet buddies (us!), and your therapist. Women don't want to play mommy to you. It's disgusting. They do NOT want an adult child to take care of. They want a strong provider-like father figure to be their husband. They want a guy who is cool, funny, and exciting. Dont be boring, basically, and don't be so serious. Lighten up. Save the heavy topics for the funeral.

    Might I recommend you hit up some dating advice sites to get a different perspective on things?

    My site (aha, I do plug my crap! :p ) is www.Friendzoned.com and I just changed the whole thing so please excuse the mess. I have some more articles to put up, but am on a trip right now.

    Try these as well:

    http://www.fastseduction.com/youarenew/
    http://www.fastseduction.com/asf-faq.shtml#questions
    http://www.alovelinksplus.com/advice/dating_self_help.htm
    and
    http://www.askmen.com/dating/doclove/ (not all articles are his; pay attention. Also, you can buy his "Dating Dictionary"/"System" on eBay cheap - highly recommended)
    http://www.sosuave.net

    Look around, get some different perspectives, and find what works for you. I personally like the Doc Love stuff because he focuses so much more on quality long-term and healthy relationships. I think he's got it mostly right, but the other advice can help you realize you have to learn how to be a mature man, not a baby, to get what you want.
     
  5. PocoDiablo

    PocoDiablo New Member

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    Beat me to the punch, thanks! :big grin:
     
  6. To0C0oL

    To0C0oL New Member

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    I see some of your points and I'll read up on that website later..

    However, some of your points I dont exactly agree with..

    To answer some questions asked, Me and "B" had talked about getting married and she had no complaints about it, so about a month later, I went ahead and asked..

    Ive tried the whole macho man, pick them up, tag it and see whats happens.. It wasnt for me.. I like to be secure and to have someone there for me to hold and forget about everything..

    Now, with "B", I can honestly say I have no idea WTF happened, because we've talked MAYBE 5 times since that night..

    "C", like previously said, bad timing I think.. We reall never got serious, I really didnt try, just let things go with the flow, pretty much like what you 2 have suggested and thats where it got me.. So, as you can see, Ive tried differnt aproaches, but keep getting shitted on..

    And I already know where I have fucked up on "D", was getting close to her without really "expressing" my feelings before straight up telling her my feelings..

    I guess what my real question was, was do you all think it is worth pursuing still? I believe it is, she seems to be opening up more and more, but she did have that little thing bout a week ago when I was going through all that shit where she wanted nothing to do with me...
     
  7. PocoDiablo

    PocoDiablo New Member

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    Well, of course not, because you are not telling us everything... only you can know what really happened. It's hard for us to give accurate advice with only 1% of the information. This is not a rip on you, but on the medium - we can't expect you to type out every detail.

    Bottom line - women leave you because they lose interest in you. Their loss of interest is *probably* tied to these three key areas: Self-confidence, self-control, and challenge.

    If you lack confidence and act like a baby who needs comforting ... :sadwavey:

    If you lack self-control and act like an asshole .... :sadwavey:

    If you are boring and predictable .... :sadwavey:

    So you tell us ... what really DID happen? Talking about shit all the time is the anti-challenge. It's BORING. Have you ever read a romance novel or seen a romantic movie where the macho man talked to the woman and ... talked about marriage? I don't think I have. It just happens without words. It's body language, looks, thoughts, insinuating things, flirting, joking, touching. So ... could you maybe talk less and flirt more or something?
     
  8. To0C0oL

    To0C0oL New Member

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    Out of those 3, this is probally the only 1 that could pertain to me.. I do have a temper, sometimes and well, come off as an asshole sometimes..

    Well, I mean.. "B" just happened.. We never talked about a "serious relationship", it just happened.. She actually brought up the idea of marriage, we talked very breifly about it and a month later I was on a knee..

    Now with "D", it seems like all of my "hints", flirting, joking, ETC. either went straight over her head, or completly unnoticed.. It was bothering me a little bit, so we talked about it and this escaladed into a conversaion about a relationship..

    Now granted, your probally going to say move on.. However, I cant.. The hints are there, but we clikc like nothing else..
     
  9. skitcy

    skitcy uhm title! ok

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    It sounds to me you rush things to "seriousness" too soon. You didn't give any timelines but given how many times the girls have turned you down for how well things were it sounds like it was only at most a year relationship at times before you ask that big questions some people have trouble asking after 5 years.
     
  10. PocoDiablo

    PocoDiablo New Member

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    Well, that's one thing to work on, at least. Think about it like this: Women see a temper as something an eight year old does. It's immature and maybe even manipulative in a child-like way. And it can be scary. It's definately not like a gentleman or the fabled "Knight in shining armor." So ... well, do what I do ... flirt or change the topic.

    I would have (1) not talked about it in a serious manner (i.e., "Marriage? You trying to catch me already? :) ) and (2) not proposed a month later. Make her work for it, make her wait, make her wonder .... ;)

    Sounds like a lack of sexual chemistry. Sure, maybe you have friendship chemistry, but if that's it ... then you're friendzoned.

    So explain more what is going on. Sounds like we are missing a lot of details.
     
  11. EmiB

    EmiB New Member

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    Drop her dude...

    I think Dr Judy had that antena theory or was it Dr Drew.. nevermind who it was... but you are attracted to certain types of girls and/or certain type of girls are attracted to you. Those girls have a commitment problem... and you need little retuning bud.

    You write well :)
     
  12. Reign

    Reign Banned

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    Dude, 4 girls... most people don't find a keeper in like 10. Just give it time, you're coming on too fast.

    P.S. Popping the marriage question that young, big no no. Give it time, committed shit takes time.
     
  13. To0C0oL

    To0C0oL New Member

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    Only 4 girls I've actually had a "relationship" with that was more then going out and then coming back to hump..
     
  14. To0C0oL

    To0C0oL New Member

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    Ive actually been very good so far.. Ive started boxing again, which has taken out damn near all of my temper.. And I think I can say with completly honesty, that "D" has yet to see my lose my temper, mainly cause I havnt lost it since Ive been "with" her.. I have once around her, but she was drunk off her ass and doesnt remember it and well, there was a fight outside of a club we were leaving and they came about 6 inches from knocking her down and straight ran right into me.. That got ugly in a hurry.. haha


    Honestly, I didnt think much of it when she brought it up.. I just told her I havnt really thought about it and that was the end of it.. THEN I started to think about it.. haha

    I do believe I was too young thinking back at it but, it felt right at the time.. You live you learn..


    See, this is what is kinda throwin me off.. We touch eachother, feel around on eachother, "explore" eachother.. That sort of thing.. But, its wierd, its almost as if there is a 3rd party involved telling her shit.. Sometimes she'll be into it, I can touch what I want, where I want, ETC and she does the same.. Then other times its like "Ew, dont touch me".. Its almost like there is literally a 3rd person telling her shit.. 1 of her friends actually called me out on wanting nothing but getting into her pants, which I just laughed and didnt say anything..

    I know this may sound stupid, but in her AIM profile it says "My love doesnt scare me, other peoples love does".. She has had 1 bad relationship, I think it was 8-9 months, he cheated on her.. Shes only had 1 other "serious" relationship, which she ended and they are still friends..


    What more would you like to know..? What details would you be reffering to..?

    I mean, I already know where I have fucked up.. I knew that before I even wrote this up..

    A: I am too nice.. Which, well, I'm probally am always going to be put in that catagory because all I am doing is being myself.. But you see, there is a differnce between being the "nice" guy and being a straight pushover and alot of people dont seem to think that way.. I know when to put my foot down, when to say no, ETC..

    B: Putting her on the spot and telling her the way I felt.. We came back from a night out, she was a little tpsy, but no where near drunk.. We were playing around with eachother, touchy feely sort of thing.. I paused for a second, looked at her, told her "Y'know, you're awesome".. Then rubbed my finger on her cheek and went to kiss her and she backed away, told me good night and went in her house.. I guess you could say I was "stupid" enough to show her that it really bothered me and she kept buggin me about it, so I just kinda said look, sat her down and told her how I felt about her and 1 thing just kinda led to another and thats how the whole relationship deal got brought up..

    So what other details would you like..? Like I said, Ive known where I fucked up before I typed this, but I gues my real question would be A: Is there hope for pulling myself out of this hole and B: How should I go about doing it..?

    And before you say it, no, I'm not going to give up on pulling myself out of the hole.. I cant do it, Ive never quit anything in my life and like I have told her, I have never clicked with anyone like I have with her..
     
  15. Injected1

    Injected1 New Member

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    It seems as if you're too nice man. You're getting into the dreaded friendzone and becoming a security blanket. Almost all girls need that "challenge" of a "bad boy" and quickly get bored with a pushover who gives them their every little whim. Some guys try the "nice guy" act for too long and that takes them to friendzone, which is nearly inescapable. Once there, you can't pull off the "bad boy" attitude because they know you as their nice little friend and a change at that point will just confuse\piss them off.. You need to be nice enough to not push them away, but not so nice they get too comfortable.
     
  16. To0C0oL

    To0C0oL New Member

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    And see, IMO, this is one of those things that the current, modern day society has gone and done fucked everything up..

    Last I checked, a good, strong relationship IS about trust and comfort.. I'm labeled as the "Best guy friend".. Her parents seem to love and trust me, I fool around and fuck with her sister all the time (No, not that way, shes 12).. She trust me with everything.. Like said previously, I know when to put my foot down and I always speak my opinion about stuff..

    Going back to what was said earlier with the "good friend chemisty, but not sexual chemistry".. If there wasnt a "hint" of "sexual" chemistry, then why would the "flirting" be as heavy as it is? I mean, yea, she is a woman, every damn 1 of them flirt with damn near everyone, but there is a differnce between being flirty and having your hand on my dick through my pants..

    Now granted, I didnt pursue the hand on my grotch, mainly cause she was drunk and I was sober.. I couldnt do it..

    Now, is this the part where I'm "Too nice of a guy"?
     
  17. PocoDiablo

    PocoDiablo New Member

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    If she saw you get ugly in a hurry that's a point against you. Ha ha does not equate to being a gentleman. It more often hurts your credibility with women.

    She's conflicted because she is not sure about you - otherwise she would be all over you. The friend who called you out? I would have said "Well, DOH, I'm male and not gay. Thanks for the opinion Captain Obvious." It's okay to be a guy and admit to it. And even over-do it a little... :)

    It's ... weird. It sounds very immature to me. Not my type of thing to hear.

    Nice is boring. Don't be boring. Be cocky, a little dis-interested, and be yourself. It's good you put your foot down, but you just told me when someone asked if you just wanted to get into her pants you did not reply... so ... what happened there? You have to roll with the punches! ;)

    Yup. Keep your mouth shut next time. You learned that lesson.

    Avoid therapy and in-depth conversations about your feelings. Did you learn that lesson? Of course, there *is* a time and place, but it's not so soon in the relationship. It's like 5 years later.

    You have a typical dumb guy mentality. You look at this like it's a broken TV and you can just fix it with some bubble gum and duct tape. Relationships and women do not work that way. Could you save things? Maybe, it's hard for me to say, but in my opinion as an outsider I would tend to say "No, you made too many mistakes." This relationship thing is like time itself - you can only go forward and remember the past. You cannot go back in time and re-do things. So, look forward for other opportunities and move on.
     
  18. PocoDiablo

    PocoDiablo New Member

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    Modern day society has only fucked this up in terms of guys thinking they need to be more in touch with their feminine side, be more girlie and understanding, and be more like a wimp. At no time in human history have women ever been attracted to a child. Women have and always will be attracted to a strong man who will protect and provide for her, and will not kiss her ass. A self-assured man knows he is a prize and will keep women. A kiss-ass child like guy can only hope to buy a woman's attention, and she'll bore of that quickly. So modern day society has only made your expectations backwards.

    You're like a brother to her though. Her parents like you because they don't understand what will make a strong relationship. Being nice and predictable is not the same thing that will keep you together. Granted, you don't want to be a prick, you cannot be boring either. If you are, she will innately (instinctually) get bored of being with her "friend" or "brother" and seek out a sexually virile man to procreate with. Best guy friend is a kiss of death, IMO.

    Yup. You, as a male, are expected to try to get sex. Of course, as a child or brother you are not. So, in that regards, you behaved exactly like a brother - or a friend. So, you tell me: Are you friendzoned?
     
  19. To0C0oL

    To0C0oL New Member

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    Well, I probally over exaggerated a little bit.. I simply put my leg behind them both and threw them both onto the floor.. THEN everything got real ugly cause everyone started jumping in around us.. I managed to slip my way out and walk her and her friend away before I got tooo much involved.. Not so much as because they ran into me, mainly because if we were a half step behind, she would have got knocked down..

    The only reason I really didnt come back with a smart ass response (which I do quite often, it makes for laughs and giggles), was because I had just met this chick not a hour early, but I guess she talked to her about me alot..

    Be myself? Being nice is myself.. Its the person I am.. I help out damn near everyone I can.. Like I have said to some people, I seem to be better at solving everyone elses problems, rather then my own.. And as said above, I just met he friend who called me out and I didnt like her from the get go so, it kinda dumb founded me at the time..


    It, in all honestly, wasnt THAT in-depth of a conversation.. Like I said early, she did something, she noticed it really bothered me, kept bothering me about it until I let it out.. My mistake? Yes, but hey, we make them, its a lesson learned, time to move on.. And I am going to assume that the "5 years later" comment is an exaggeration, correct..? I mean, well, it has to be.. lol..

    I can see where your coming from, but I can also see where I screwed up in the wording of my question.. The way I see my question, after re-reading it, is exactly like you said, looking for the simple, 1-2 fix.. I cant really just say "move on", not with how good I feel around this woman and not with how well we click.. I just cant do it, I honestly cant give you an example of a time Ive quite on something, so that is pretty much out of the question, for now..

    I guess what should have been the question would be..

    From your experience, what would be some ways of aproaching this situation to dig myself out of this hole?

    Like I'm sure you know, I cant just straight up change the way I act.. She'll get suspicous and know something is up.. My view on it is this..

    Continue with what I am doing.. Taking her out for dinner, buying her little gifts here and there.. Now, reading on your website (which I joined about 20 minutes ago, BTW :cool: ), you say that buying her way through everything is bad.. Which I agree and I dont buy her way through everything.. I'd say, over the past 2 1/2 months we have been seeing eachother 1 on 1, Its probally about 70% me, 30% her.. Which yea, I guess is kinda high on me, but I am the male, so, yea..

    However, some things I do see me changing.. Like not taking "advantage" of her.. I have already dead set in my mind that I wont be saying no again, if there is another time, which I'm about 98% sure there will be.. Ive had the chance to do it 3 times and I didnt because I simply couldnt.. That will change, which, as much as I hate to do it, I have to..

    Another thing, not talking about "Us" again.. Which is hard to do to begin with, but the second after we stopped having the conversation, I knew I had fucked up, mainly because it being so soon in our "relationship"..
     
  20. To0C0oL

    To0C0oL New Member

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    I see where your coming from, only because your dont know how I act and how she acts, which is, well, understandable seems I could fill up the maximum text allowed everytime describing everything..

    I guess here would be some more questions.. What exactly is this "strong" man your reffering to here..? I have my definition, but I'd like to hear yours first..

    Like I said, I cant describe EVERY little detail in depth, but I am far from an ass kisser.. She knows she cannot walk all over me, she has tried (which any woman will) and she has failed.. She knows I put my foot down and she knows I express my opinion..


    I understand that, but, I know, this will probally sound fucked up to most of you, having sex with a woman I care for for the first time, is something I hold sacred, which is why I couldnt do it when I have had the chances while she was drunk and me being sober.. Now dont get me wrong, I have taken my sahre of women home, but I didnt "care" for them other then to have sex with, which is why I have been able to do it with no problem, which is where some of you may think is fucked up, which, I guess it kinda is, but hey, You gotta have some sort of "morales" somewhere, right?

    After reading your site a little bit, I'll try to answer this 1.. If you want me to delete what I'm about to post because its on your site, I'll gladly do it for you.. I modified it a little (added numbers) so its easier for me to reply to..

    1. It depends on the definition of sexual activity.. Like previously stated, I can/have touched/played with EVERYWHERE and have seen all the goods and she does the same with me.. So, I guess I'll leave that up as a Maybe..

    2. I think the longest phone call we have had is maybe 20 minutes.. We talk on AIM pretty often and we text eachother throughout the day.. So, I guess I'll leave that as another "Maybe"

    3. We have never really discussed the fact why either of us are single, but we both know why.. Her, she says she "isnt really looking for anything" right now and me, well, I just got out of that stage of my life where you bang every female you can.. Like I said, we havnt really discussed it, but we both know.. So I'll give that 1 a "No".

    4. We do talk about problems.. Not so much depression, but the stress.. We talked about how she was tired of her old job, I did the same.. We talked and helped eachother out, so I gues this will go as a "Yes"

    5. Well, she has no current crush on anyone, at least she hasnt told me and we havnt talked about it.. However, she is Bi, and she has shared some of her "erotic" experiences with me and I have done the same.. (going back to my original post, chick "A" was Bi, damn near lez, I'm pretty sure I was the only guy she had sex with for at LEAST a year before she left) And I have told some stories about our "erotic" experiences.. So, again, I guess this would go under "Maybe", by definition

    6. Not everywhere.. Like previously stated, its about 70-30.. So, again, I guess this would be a "Maybe" by definition..

    7. Well, this is def. a yes, mainly because she has a restricted DL (DUI) until June.. So, Yes..

    8. She has made me wait more then 15 minutes, one time.. And its funny is because she didnt this just yesterday.. But, I went to see her at work cause I had a job inteview over that way.. She works at a Ladies only gym, so I was in there while it was dead.. So some women came to work out and she asked me to leave, no big deal, and she'll be getting off about 4ish (it was 3:30).. I said ok, sat in my car for awhile and right at 4, a woman walked in and wanted to join, so she had to do all the paper work and we didnt go out to eat till about 4:30ish.. So, I'll give that 1 a "No"

    9. Ive been shopping with her once and she bought me some new "Dressing up" stuff.. Other then that, I dont think we've been shopping.. So, that will be a "No"

    10. Not in the 2 1/2+ months Ive been "with" her.. So, "No"

    11. No boyfriend, so thats a "No"..

    12. To some of my friends, she has, but other then that, I'm gonna have to go with "No"..

    13. Not really, I mean, shes female.. Its in her nature to be "flirtive" so, I guess that would be a "Maybe" by definition..

    So... The tally is..

    Yes - 2
    No - 6
    Maybe - 5

    So, I'd have to go with no.. And to be completly honest, doing that just made me feel a whole lot better about the situation..
     

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