WEB Logo Design

Discussion in 'OT Technology' started by Morgan06, Jun 23, 2009.

  1. Morgan06

    Morgan06 New Member

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    I contacted a member of 99designs whose previous work I liked, and inquired about creating a logo for me.

    I sent a summary of what I wanted and didn't want, then we worked out a price; but after almost a dozen rough ideas I'm not digging very much of it. And none of it is as creative, as well thought out as her other work or focuses on what I was after.

    I don't know how long she has spent on this stuff, should I offer some sort of compensation even though I won't use any of it? Is tree fiddy via PayPal and a fuck off proper internetiquette?
     
  2. Jesse

    Jesse PSN: iamajesse; XBL: Inhale My Rod; G8 GT crew; Ne OT Supporter

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    Did they watermark the work so they don't think you just stole it and told them to piss off?
     
  3. Morgan06

    Morgan06 New Member

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    No marks, wouldn't use it anyway. :dunno:
     
  4. Morgan06

    Morgan06 New Member

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    This is what I've been given, and to me screams old tyme mom & pop shop, and btw we come to you.

    [​IMG]

    I offered a $150 minimum, and $200 if the design would appeal to the demographic I wanted and delivered upon the mobile aspect- she countered saying it could get done for $100 flat.
     
  5. Phasm

    Phasm OT Supporter

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    holy fucking ew batman.


    But, as a (much better) designer it pisses me off when people flake on me and don't pay, I'm too trustworthy of strangers. Did you pay at least half already? That's one of my requirements. The "right" thing to do would be pay the amount agreed upon but that's really up to you.
     
  6. Morgan06

    Morgan06 New Member

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    That's an answer I expected, but not the one I wanted to hear. I don't think I should be on the hook if the logo is completely opposite of my requests and not on par with the designer's previous work. She may not be capable of top notch brand recog/corporate identity stuff, but what she has posted was appealing at least.

    I didn't pay half up front, there have been 6 roughs (even less finished/involved than what I posted) and the only revision to 1-2 was to change the font. We're not talking more than a few hours for me to do what she's done, and I still don't even know how to make a straight line turn squiggly in Illustrator.
     
  7. Phasm

    Phasm OT Supporter

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    It's really one of those ethics things :dunno: it's you're call in the end, but just speaking from her side since I work on it she did put in the time and work requested. I would let her know that you aren't happy with the final result and pay half for time compensation, or maybe she can come up with a better logo. Can you link to her other work? I'm curious to see how much it really varies in quality.
     
  8. Morgan06

    Morgan06 New Member

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  9. Die Antwoord

    Die Antwoord New Member

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    Most of her shit looks like clip art.

    Just tell her it's not going in the direction you want. Be honest. :dunno:
     
  10. Morgan06

    Morgan06 New Member

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    Honesty is the policy. I have no problem being critical and cordial, just felt wrong not paying her at least a portion of what was arranged upon.

    But on the other side of that, if someone hired me to clean their car and I changed the oil instead I'm sure that customer wouldn't pay me either.
     
  11. Azazel28

    Azazel28 New Member

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    So basically Morgan, the designer worked for free?

    Six different iterations would suggest that the designer was willing to work with you in some aspect. However, I've worked with plenty of clients that wanted to micromanage the entire projects and because of their lack of design knowledge it leads the project down a path of no return. Some clients are just not happy with what you gave them, even though you did everything they asked. In truth, this is actually a part of the problem because most clients have an unattainable vision in their head and no one can match it. Similarity to the way we read books and how the movie is never as good as we imagined it. Logo design can fall into this same category if business has a "pre-set" image in their mind.

    Now, I'm not saying this is true for you but this happens often in the business. In truth labor is labor and they should be compensated for their time. No one wants to do 10, 20, 30 hours of work and not be compensated for it. That is the primary reason my company has a contract that states just that, we get paid for the hours we worked on the project and if the client pulls out, we will give them a prorated amount back for any hours that have not been worked. For instance, we charge a standard design rate of 45/hour, but we give our clientèle and estimate of the total hours we believe it will take to come to a finalized project. Our logos have ranged from 500 to 3,500 dollars, depending on technical skill, industry, and scope.

    All in all, the designer should be paid for the time they spent. Now if you can give them their time back I'm sure they will happily except your requires for no payment. Back to reality, we find that the designer has lost that time and therefore had an opportunity cost taking on your project and should be compensated.

    I know this is a touchy subject considering that a lot of design in completely subjective and in my opinion logo design is mediocre, but I've done my fair share of mediocre work as well and still received payment for my time. Personally, I would just be honest with the designer and tell him/her your qualms and go from there.

    On a side note, some people don't think logos take time because after looking over them they appear simple with little technical flair. However, that is exactly what a logo should be (See walmart, payless shoes, jacak in a box, pepsi). These are all companies who have recently changed their logo during the recession and paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for these "simple" revisions. This does not mean logos are quick and easy, but in reality consultations (emailing clients for approvals and changes), sketching, revisions, and polishing take huge amount amounts of time. Logos require planning, understanding the clients business, color theory, etc. In reality I think logos should be far more costly considering how they literally define a company. Humans have been using symbols/icons (such as these letters I’m typing out) to creating meaning since the dawn of time. Understanding this and relaying the right message is tricky and it is something that I will continue to try and master. It’s not that it just looks pretty or old fashion, but that it speaks to your clients in a way that McDonald’s yellow arches speak to the world.
     
  12. Azazel28

    Azazel28 New Member

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    Poor analogy, it would be like if you someone hired you to clean their car and you did, but in the process left some streaks on the glass, soap suds still left on one side, and a wheel was not cleaned.

    Would you still pay them for cleaning your car or would you ask for a refund...that is a question isn't it.
     
  13. Phasm

    Phasm OT Supporter

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    That's pretty much what I was trying to get across just in a lazier fashion :rofl: It's pretty harsh to not pay for the time spent even if unsatisfied, especially at such a low rate. I do have to agree though the other logos look MUCH better. I wish more people did understand that simplistic looking logos aren't 10 minute jobs and take time to develop, (see: almost any big company.) Not that it is applicable here but that's a really great point.
     
  14. Pepsi1975

    Pepsi1975 Mod of the Year

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    I am curious on what he told the designer what he wanted, I have dealt with customers that had no clue what they wanted or give me details on what they wanted

    if you did not give good directions, which you may think they are, but to designers they may not be, then it is not entirely the designer's fault
     
  15. Morgan06

    Morgan06 New Member

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    I understand where you're coming from and I wasn't trying to convince anyone reading that I should be allowed to skate without paying due to my being unsatisfied.

    I gave the designer some aspects to focus on, some past tag lines we've used, and a description of how our business works. She asked for color preferences, and I also provided links to logos I liked and listed exactly what I didn't want. But it seems as though all of that was lost in the tubes somewhere.

    I sent her an email explaining exactly what I didn't like about the last submission, and that much of what I've received wasn't as creative as the work that inspired me to contact her. Also told her that if any of my requests were stifling the process, to disregard it and to do what she wanted. If I'm supposed to pay for this, it might as well be something I wouldn't have thought of.
     
  16. Morgan06

    Morgan06 New Member

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    The initial email with requests said, and after re reading it all sounds completely reasonable:

    The company name "Eco Auto Detail" can be used with or without spaces and with or without capital letters. If the abbreviated "EAD" is used, full text or website URL should be included. I'd prefer the use of no more than two fonts.

    The use of a blue/green color palette in lieu of any eco/nature elements. The name is Eco, we don't need a leaf/tree to convey that point. An alternative palette would be red/blk/yel due to the majority of our clients driving German vehicles.

    This logo will be used on our work van as vehicle signage, on the web, and printed receipts/invoices. Our recent taglines used have been "Come To You Convenience", "AutoMOBILE Detailing", "Clean Cars by Clean Means", and "Doing More with Less".

    What I don't want is a macro zoomed stock photo of an Ferrari. We don't use any stock photos of cars on our website and have worked hard to get there. In addition, if a vehicle is used in any element that it not be Italian (Ferrari, Lamborghini)- we don't work on them as there aren't any in the area.

    Then I added some links to logos I liked:

    http://logopond.com/gallery/detail/60493
    http://logopond.com/gallery/detail/51155
    http://logopond.com/gallery/detail/64619
    http://logopond.com/gallery/detail/50624
    http://logopond.com/gallery/detail/50068

    And ended with the focus of the logo being a luxury driven, mobile business with environmentally responsible practices in the State of CT.
     
  17. Die Antwoord

    Die Antwoord New Member

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    Yeah, she pretty much failed.
     
  18. Morgan06

    Morgan06 New Member

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    You guys have either gone through this process on one end or the other- were my requests too detailed?

    I tried to redirect her with my most recent email, get it steered back more toward where I want to be before I give up. But if it's more fail, I'm wasting more of her time.
     
  19. Die Antwoord

    Die Antwoord New Member

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  20. Morgan06

    Morgan06 New Member

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    That thread looks like it turned into a clusterfuck, thats what happens when you undercharge and over perform.
     
  21. Morgan06

    Morgan06 New Member

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    Probably what I'll end up doing.

    That or tell her I'll start a contest on 99designs with a higher payout, and she's welcome to submit her work.
     
  22. Pepsi1975

    Pepsi1975 Mod of the Year

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    I used it to pad my portfolio, but 99 designs does suck, alot of contest holders offering up empty promises to designers and not carrying through with them and even with proof 99 designs will not do anything about it
     
  23. Morgan06

    Morgan06 New Member

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    You're all probably right, I think I've resolved to either find an up and comer or teach myself more in Illustrator. The latter may be the only way to get the logo I want.

    This is what I made (not the Porsche) last week to put on the back of my work van before contacting the designer I did. I'm still learning.
    [​IMG]
     
  24. Die Antwoord

    Die Antwoord New Member

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    That logo looks pretty nice. :bowdown:
     
  25. Morgan06

    Morgan06 New Member

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    It's nice looking and will definitely catch some looks, but still not a logo. I've got ideas in my head, but I can't get Illustrator to do what I want just yet.

    My nga.
     

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