GUN Local newspaper ran these two articles today

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by Pineapple Devil, Dec 23, 2007.

  1. Pineapple Devil

    Pineapple Devil beat it!

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    :hsugh:
    wasnt the woman that shot the guy in the church a concealed license holder? seriously, we need to write/email this woman b/c she obviously has no logic, her facts are all screwed up, and she needs some correct information




     
  2. mikeflys1

    mikeflys1 New Member

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    Yea with like the highest murder rate in the country they should definitely be the model....:ugh:
     
  3. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    Its amazing that a student can focus on the issue and talk about the 2nd amendment and the paid gun control advocate can only write an essay that would be better titled "why i like control."
     
  4. Pineapple Devil

    Pineapple Devil beat it!

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    here is my breakdown of her article. let me know what you think and we'll edit it to be sent to her


    this is a slippery slope. you cannot simply say that if the ban is overturned that it WILL CERTAINLY result in increased gun death and injury. there is no evidence to support the fact that more guns equals more crimes, injuries, or death.

    insert something

    can you please provide me with the information that shows that these injuries or deaths are caused by LEGALLY obtained handguns? the only people that gun bans affect are the people that buy them legally. individuals that choose to obtain handguns illegally are immune from the law.

    again, this is because individuals that choose to obtain guns illegally are not affected by bans. they are going to get them no matter what the law says.

    yet again, because the criminals are not the people obtaining guns legally. how can Americans be free...? By knowing they are able to defend themselves.

    there is no denying this, but he stole the gun from his father. gun ban or not, if the gun had been locked away properly this tragedy would have been prevented.

    The person that shot the assailant was an OFF DUTY security guard attending church service as many other patrons of that church. She is approved to carry a handgun because she has a handgun carry license, just as many other Americans in this country do. Had it not been for the Second Amendment she would not have been in the position to stop the shooter. Either you were not aware of that or you are so caviler about the story to write something that may jeopardize your view against guns.

    insert comment

    Hard to fathom? For whom? Maybe for you but for many others it is not hard to fathom. Who makes up a militia? People. Who does the second amendment give the right to bare arms to? The people!
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2007
  5. vwpilot

    vwpilot New Member

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    As far as suicide goes, it also has one of the smallest populations in the US so it should be the lowest. Lets see the percentages based on population and then make a determination.

    As far as the England comparisons, try this quote:

    Here is the article. http://www.allsafedefense.com/news/International/BritvsUSA.htm

    So while gun murders may have declined, obviously murders with other weapons is going up drastically because Britons have not had the right to defend themselves with firearms.

    This page may also be of some use to you. http://www.gunowners.org/sk0703.htm

    Some quotes:

     
  6. idleprocess

    idleprocess Bring a dollar with you baby in the cold cold grou

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    Bullshit. The anti's are grabbing a straws if they think that the right to bear arms is a collective right. The amendment states that the right of the people without further modification. That bit about a well-regulated militia is confusing, but doesn't say shit about needing to hold a valid militia card signed by the governor in order to bear arms.

    You'd think the anti's would have the good sense to avoid the topic of slavery and racism since most gun control has solid, traceable roots to both topics.

    Ever wonder why "Saturday Night specials" have been repeatedly outlawed in states all over the nation? It's got jack-fucking-shit to do with concerns about product safety and everything to do with keeping inexpensive guns out of the hands of certain social elements that the legislature (and the white voting public) did not care to see armed. Rumor has it that the thuggos moved into 9mm/.40/.45ACP guns because of all the legislation banning cheap guns that tended to chamber .25ACP, .32ACP, etc.

    So, instead of addressing whatever social issues lead to so much violence in DC, we need to enforce the tyranny of the minority on the rest of the nation?

    Them's some damn-impressive stats! Mass-killings happen so amazingly frequently that surely they're the best gauges of a policy's success! Before the handgun ban in the UK, some eleventy billion people were killed each year, right? No? You mean that the UK has had a negligible homicide rate all along anyway? Shit - looks like someone should have taken some sort of refresher statistics course before tossing around numbers...

    Is this the best that the VPC can turn out? She does this for a living and some grad student can out-maneuver her - probably spending less time researching and composing the piece in the first place?
     
  7. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

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    In 1976, Washington D.C. enacted one of the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation. Despite an allegedly low suicide rate, the city's murder rate rose 134 percent through 1996 while the national murder rate has dropped 2 percent.
    Dr. Gary Kleck, University of Florida using FBI Uniform Crime Statistics, 1997
    Many of the countries with the strictest gun control have the highest rates of violent crime. Australia and England, which have virtually banned gun ownership, have the highest rates of robbery, sexual assault, and assault with orce of the top 17 industrialized countries.
    Dutch Ministry of Justice, Criminal Victimization in Seventeen Industrialized Countries, 2001

    Since gun banning has escalated in the UK, the rate of crime – especially violent crime – has risen. Street robberies soared 28% in 2001. Violent crime was up 11%, murders up 4%, and rapes are up 14% (British Home Office, reported by BBC news, July 12, 2002). This trend continues in 2004 with a 10% increase in street crime, 8% increase in muggings, and a 22% increase in robberies. In 1919, before they had any gun control, the U.K. had a homicide rate that was 8% of the U.S. rate. By 1986, and after enacting significant gun control, the rate was 9% – practically unchanged (Gary Kleck, “Targetting Guns”, 1997 at 359).

    Comparing crime rates between America and Britain is flawed. In America, a gun crime is recorded as a gun crime. In Britain, a crime is only recorded
    when there is a final disposition (a conviction). All unsolved gun crimes in Britain are not reported as gun crimes, grossly undercounting the amount of gun crime there (Gallant, Hills, Kopel, “Fear in Britain”, Independence Institute, July 18, 2000). To make matters worse, British law enforcement has been exposed for falsifying criminal reports to create falsely lower crime figures, in part to preserve tourism (“Crime Figures a Sham, Say Police “, Daily Telegraph, April 1, 1996)

    In Australia, crime has been rising since a sweeping ban on private gun ownership. In the first two years after gun-owners were forced to surrender 640,381 personal firearms, government statistics show a dramatic increase in criminal activity (Australian Bureau of Statistics, “Crime and Justice - Crimes Recorded by Police”, 2000). In 2001-2002, homicides were up another 20% (Australian Institute of Criminology, “Report #46: Homicide in Australia, 2001-2002", April 2003)

    From the inception of firearm confiscation to March 27, 2000, the numbers are:
    • Gun murders up 19%
    • Armed robbery up 69%
    • Home invasions up 21%

    The sad part is that in the 15 years before national gun confiscation:
    • Firearm-related homicides dropped nearly 66%
    • Firearm-related deaths fell 50%

    Gun crimes are rising throughout Australia after guns were banned. In Sydney alone, robbery rates with guns rose 160% in 2001, more in the previous year (The Sydney Morning Herald, “Costa targets armed robbers”, April 4, 2002)

    A ten year study that concluded Australian firearm confiscation had no effect on crime rates ("Gun Laws and Sudden Death: Did the Australian Firearms Legislation of 1996 Make a Difference?", Dr. Jeanine Baker and Dr. Samara McPhedran, British Journal of Criminology, November 2006)
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2007

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