GUN LMT MRP vs. Standard upper w/ DD Lite

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by ZCP M3, Jul 9, 2008.

  1. ZCP M3

    ZCP M3 Active Member

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    I'm having trouble deciding what my next AR15's upper should be. After having my CMMG bargain bin for 9 months I've decided I want more of a precision 100-300yd bench shooter instead of a tacticool carbine.

    As far as the upper goes, I'm torn between the LMT MRP and just a nice upper with DD Lite rails installed. Does anyone know which is lighter? I'll be mounting a good scope and a bipod on it for sure. From what I've read, at 300yds there's no need to put more than a 16" barrel on. Either would be a midlength DI for the sake of parts availability and since I clean my guns after every trip I'm not worried about reliability. I guess I'm worried about the MRP being heavy as fuck as well as being locked into LMT's barrels. What barrel would you all choose?

    Anyone feel like chiming in and help plan my future build? :hsd:
     
  2. johnson

    johnson New Member

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    VLTOR VIS w/ Noveske SS barrel.
     
  3. ZCP M3

    ZCP M3 Active Member

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    Why would you go with the VIS? While it uses standard barrels, the rails aren't one solid piece. Seems like one more place to lose rigidity instead of using a bolt-up rail system and a standard upper. :dunno:
     
  4. johnson

    johnson New Member

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    It's cheaper and from what ive read, the rail is very solid once you clamp in the bottom piece.

    Also when going with a billet upper, youre getting a true square which will aid in accuracy when mounting your magnified optic.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2008
  5. ZCP M3

    ZCP M3 Active Member

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    Looks like the LMT Rifle MRP with a charging handle and BCG is $1450 from Chakup's website and a complete Noveske VIS 10" upper with a 16.1" Recon barrel, charging handle, BCG, and Vortex flash hider is $1338.75 from their website.

    From PK Firearms and Rainier Arms the following setup is $1128.
    VLTOR MUR upper, Noveske 16.1" Recon barrel,
    Young Manufacturing chrome BCG, DD Lite 10" rails, DD Lite wrench, and generic charging handle. I'd be reusing the Troy midevil muzzle brake i currently have on my CMMG bargain bin.

    So the billet upper will still keep it truly squared and I think the DD Lite's will be lighter and sturdier than the VIS (If I'm wrong, correct me).

    Any reason why the prebuilt Noveske warrants an extra $211 or the LMT MRP an extra $322? That's money I could spend on a NICE 2-stage match trigger or put towards some nice glass.
    :hsd:
     
  6. johnson

    johnson New Member

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    Well Noveske has a MUR option for $1206 which includes proper assembly and is is test fired.
     
  7. ZCP M3

    ZCP M3 Active Member

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    Didn't see that on their website before. That's one fugly set of rails though, are those made by VLTOR as well?
     
  8. yar1182

    yar1182 New Member

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    I would most be concerned about the barrel. The barrel is going to be a big factor in terms of weight and your accuracy out to 300. If your shooting out to 300 or beyond it is also the ammo. The weak sauce 55 grain amm will get there but they got so little energy and get pushed around by the wind your just not doing yourself any favors. What you want is a heavier 69, 75, or 77 grain bullet. When we get into these heavier bullets now twist rate is a concern. Most barrels are 1x9 twist. This is great for light weight bullets, geart of 55's but not so hot for the heavy stuff. What you want is a 1x8 twist which shoots 55's well on the low end, kind of suck for the light stuff like 40's but is freaking awesome with the heavy stuff like the 69's and 77's.

    The contor and lenght of the barrel determines the weight. I've seen barrels as short at 14.5" with a permemently attached 3" compensator (think muzzle brake) do well at extended distances. This would be the lightest weight. On the other end of the spectrum the longest I would go is a 18" w/ 3" comp. This will give you good feet per second and a wide choice of ammo. This is the route I went. A 16" would be a good choice too as it's right in the middle. Get the mid lenght gas system not the carbine lenght gas system. The lenght of the gas system has a major impact on how much the gun recoils. Rifle lenght is the softest (need at least a 17" barrel), mid lenght is a good compromise (need at least a 16"), and carbine is the most recoil (shorter barrels up to 16").

    So now that I schooled you on barrels what you want is a 16" or 18" light weight barrel with a 1x8 twist and a comp. I like the jp barrels www.jprifles.com or the mstn barrels www.mstn.biz

    I also do not like the railed forends. First they are heavy, second they are stupid. What I mean by stupid is that you have rails over the whole foreend. Then you cover 3/4's of the rails w/ handguards or ladders so you can grip the rifle properly. I like the JP/Vltor vtac handguard. You mount sections of rails only where you need. There is more mounting options. On a regular rail system your only choices are 12 o'clock, 3 o'clcock , 6 o'clock, and 9 o'clock. The JP gives you 12, 1:30, 3, 4:30, 6, 7:30, 9, and 10:30. I find that I need the 1:30 for secondary short range sights, and 10:30 is best spot for weaponlight.

    So what I would do if I had a realistic budget is get the jp 16" or 18" barrel kit. This comes with a the barrel, and adjustable gas block, a comp (get the jp tactical comp not the tank break "beer can" comp no matter what JP tries to tell you) and a jp handguard (whole kit is $550). You can have this whole thing bolted to your existing AR upper.

    If you still wanting a upper I would go with a DPMS Lo Pro. The reason is that we measured the wall thickness on the left hand side of the upper reciever and the DPMS has the most meat. Some upper recievers are thin as paper on that side, even some of the billet recievers. The DPMS is going to be the strongest and give you the option to cut it for a side charger (one of my future projects). You can then use your choice of bolt. I myself don't care about the bolt as my AR smith takes them apart, lightens them but cutting windows into it, polishes the rails, true's and restakes the key.

    So If I were in your place get the jp barrel kit, have a gunsmith or better yet AR smith attach it to your present upper. Sell off you existing barrel and forend. Put the rest of the money you budgeted into scope rings, and ammo.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2008
  9. ZCP M3

    ZCP M3 Active Member

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    :bowdown: thanks for the lecture yar!

    My current rifle is a CMMG bargain bin...meaning the generic upper has a cheap BCG, 1:9 non-chromelined barrel, and standard M4 handguards. I think I'd be better off selling the complete rifle and starting over from scratch.

    Few more questions:

    Which direction do the spent casings fly without a shell deflector on the upper?

    Which is lighter between the 16" JP and MSTN barrels? Do you have any suggestions for a bipod?

    That customizable free-float tube looks pretty interesting. How sturdy is it compared to something like a VIS/MRP or DD's Lite bolt-on rails?
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2008
  10. yar1182

    yar1182 New Member

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    The MSTN is lighter. JP has some funny ideas about barrel contor. The barrel is turned down under the handguard but is a full 1" past the gas block. JP says they do this to add weight to the front of the rifle to make it more stable for free hand unsupported. I would say it is a good half pound heavier than the mstn in the 18" lenght. The MSTN is turned down on both ends of the gas block.

    The MSTN barrel is real nice but the barrel alone is $500. Both the JP and the MSTN shoot real nice and will be MOA or better if you got the ammo and do your part.

    While the JP is heavier it is not bad. My entire rifle with all the extra stuff bolted on is 9 lbs. It is plenty quick and I don't have a problem lugging it around all day.

    If you call JP ask if it would be possible to do a 16" ultra light weight with the 8 twist. They used to offer it, not sure if they got one sitting on a shelf somewhere or can run one in the next batch of barrels. That would be real ill for what you want to do.
     
  11. ZCP M3

    ZCP M3 Active Member

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    Looks like JP will be my barrel of choice from a budget standpoint. I'll definitely ask them if they'll do a 16" ULW profile in 1:8.

    Another thing is if I should stick with my SOPMOD stock or sell that off and get the Magpul PRS...
     
  12. phrozenlikwid

    phrozenlikwid New Member

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    FWIW, most of the big-name barrel makers can/do make AR barrels, and contour them to whatever your heart desires, for (probably) a comparable cost. I seriously doubt JP, Wes, or most others (I'm thinking Noveske uses Douglas/Wilson doesn't he?) manufacture tubes in-house. If you reload... this gives the ability to have the rifle throated to whatever round that you will be running (a good thing). If not, you could have it throated for whatever factory round you are using (still a good thing)

    You ever shoot LR precision with an AR Yar? Wondering what bullets you were running.... I know the 75'Max is too long to mag feed which would have been my go-to bullet for such application.

    Huuuuuuge +1 on the lightweight contour. Don't fall into the skinny tubes don't shoot crowd. It's easy to build a unwieldly pig when it comes to AR's (I've done it myself recently). Light = Right.
     
  13. yar1182

    yar1182 New Member

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    The sopmod is rock solid. I went away from it because when I rotate into my secondary optic it lifted my head out of positition. I'm going to run the vltor clubfoot for a while. I really have nothing bad to say about the standard A2 stock. That's what I used for years, it's just doesn't look "custom".

    As far as what other manufactureres do it's hit an miss. They can say anything they want. I forgot to mention I like the wylde chamber insead of the loosey goosey 5.56 or the more often than not too tight out of spec 223. the wylde is kind of inbetween. This is the chamber you get on the JP and mine shoots 3/4 moa without breaking a sweat. Of the main steam manufactueres I head bushmaster is pretty good with barrels. JP has their barrels made by nordic components from blanks I believe and then cyno treats them.

    MSTN are freaks they bore scope their barrels, and all the little things that make you feel good your getting your money worth.

    Regarding ammo I can get up to 77's to fit in a standard AR mag. The 90's are no way those need to be hand loaded into the chamber. I have not had a problem with anything under a 77 but mostly I shot the 69's as they are less expensive and get the job done. The 77's I save for 400 yards.
     
  14. phrozenlikwid

    phrozenlikwid New Member

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    I assume you are talking SMK's?
     
  15. yar1182

    yar1182 New Member

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    smk's are my favorite flavor but I've shot the other stuff as well.
     

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