GUN LMS Defense Pistol 1 **after action report**

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by Paul Revere, Nov 24, 2008.

  1. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

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    first of all, i'm gone for a weekend and theres a forum invasion by noobs? :mamoru:


    ok, now to the good stuff.

    I (and garandbobcat) just attened the LMS Defense Pistol 1 class in San Jose taught by Ken Hardesty and assisted by Todd Nielsen. their bio's can be found here: http://www.lmsdefense.com/lms/home/instructors. let me also say this was my first formal training class and it was one of the best shooting experiences of my life!

    it was a 2 day course requiring 700 rounds of ammo, but i probably put between 800 and 850 down range :bowdown:

    details:

    DAY 1

    The basics. we started with introductions and prior shooting experience. I was about middle of the pack considering there was 1-2 people there who had very limited shooting experience, and some who have been shooting for my whole life. for those of you who post on CGN: Mace Windu was there along with some others (whos SNs escape me). other notable mentions: John Jardine (he is a death dealing motherfucker :bowdown: )

    before shooting began we were asked the 4 basic rules of firearm shooting. safety is a priority with LMS defense and they take it very seriously.

    we began with the 5 step draw:
    1. Secure master grip, defeat any retention and put non-dominant hand on chest
    2. Pull handgun straight up from holster
    3. "rock 'n lock" lock elbow in to body, and point pistol at target
    4. low ready - bring in support hand and secure grip on gun
    5. full presentation

    we practiced this on dot drills (shooting 6 dots twice) a few times so everyone got comfortable with drawing, then moved on to shape/number/color targets. ken would call out a shape/number/color and we deliver 2 rounds then reholster. rinse, repeat.

    from there we moved to failure drills - two rounds to the chest and one to the central nervous system (;) ). also learned about tactical reloads (reloading with retention). before your gun runs empty in the lull of a gunfight, grab a fresh mag in your non-dominant hand, then drop the mag in the gun into your hand, insert the fresh mag, and secure the mag with "unknown" roundcount. this lets you have a fresh mag for whatever you might encounter next.

    after learning these shooting techniques we were taught about two "rest" positions. the first: sul (Portuguese for "south") - it's exactly how it sounds: bring the gun in towards your chest, put your support hand flat agasint your chest and rest the barrel of the gun on your knuckles pointing straight down. helpful if you're in a stack (help prevent shooting the guy in front of you).

    the second position we learned was the same hand movement - gun against the knuckles pointed down, but extended at arms length. this is called the NRA "safety circle" (i think, i missed the name). uncomfortable to hold for any length of time, but if you're in a vehicle you wont crank a round off into your nuts or femoral artery.

    after the class had these positions down, we moved to different of kneeling. for 1 knee down: simply drop the dominant knee down. to stand, step forward. for 2 knees down i found it easier to drop to both knees at the same time; to stand, bring non-dominant leg up, then step forward. remember to keep those toes on the ground! it's easier to stand, and harder to be knocked off balance.

    moving on we learned how to clear the three types of failures:

    1. type 1: "click" the worst sound you can hear in a gunfight. maybe the primer is bad, or theres no round in the chamber, either way you need to get unfucked quick. do a tap, rack, bang (or tap, rack, roll, assess for the law enforcement crowd): slam the magazine into the gun, rack the slide to clear any obstructions (roll to get them out of the chamber), and assess your situation and deliver rounds if necessary.
    2. type 2: stove pipe. round is caught in the ejection port and looks like a chimney. cleared the same way as type 1.
    3. type 3: the worst: double feed. if you adminster a tap, rack, roll, assess and the gun still goes click, look into the ejection port to see whats messed up. if you have a round in the chamber and one being fed behind it you're all fucked up. lock the slide to the rear, strip the magazine out and get rid of it (probably the source of your failure), rack the slide a handful of times to get any crap out of there, pop in a fresh mag and get back in the fight.

    more positions: prone. very fun considering i have limited experience with this shooting position. drop to double knee, put non-dominant hand on the ground for support and lay down. reverse to stand. there are various positions while prone, you can have your legs spread out and feet flat on the ground, or if cover is limited, have your legs close together. you can also do roll-over prone which lets you lay on your dominant side, bring your non-dominant knee up, and take your body off your diaphragm allowing you to breath without rocking the gun. i used rollover prone the most.

    last part of the day: turning and presenting. just pivoting on your dominant or non-dominant toe to face the target (from a 90* angle). we also did walking parallel to the target, then pivoting and firing.


    DAY 2

    basically using all of the skills we learned in Day 1 and incorporating them into various shooting positions and techniques.

    we started with non-dominant shooting both supported and single hand. fun stuff but just a bigger reminder that i need to practice this more. by the end of a few cycles i was getting the hang of it.

    we then moved to a seated position (i was the one with a paint ladder/step ladder :bigthumb: ). we would start non-dominant shoulder facing the target, dominant shoulder facing the target, or facing it straight on. for this we incorporated the NRA safety circle to draw, present and deliver rounds on target. the actual use of that technique gave me a little more appreciation for it, but its still kind of awkward.

    we now moved to the difference between cover and concealment. put two metal trashcans out on the range and went prone behind them. on the up command we had to engage targets on the left and right while staying behind cover. its hard to remember what the rest of your body is doing while you're focused on "front sight press front sight press front sight press " bang.

    this moved us to the end of the 2nd day, and my favorite part of the whole class: walking towards and away from the target while shooting. had 2 groups stacked up and we would walk down with Ken and Todd while they shouted the up command. important note: when you get within 15 yards start delivering headshots like they're going out of style. oh, and get the fuck off the X while reloading :o John Jardine fucked the targets up hardcore with his 1911.

    we finished the instruction with laterally engaging 4 targets with 1 or 2 hands (our choice).

    at the very end of the 2nd day we had a competition for recognition on the LMS forums. modified el presidente: 2 rounds to the body of 2 targets, tactical reload, 1 headshot to each target. i was paired up with Mace Windu and we both got DQ'ed because we didnt tac reload and missed 1 body shot each. oh well, maybe next time eh? :hsd:


    this class let me walk away with two major things: it enforced basic shooting skills i already had down and remind me what i needed to practice more. :wavey: this was my first formal instruction and most certainly will not be my last.

    cliffs: read the fucking post :fawk:

    edit: i know you guys are pic whores and there were some people there with cameras. if pics get posted on CGN, i'll repost them here :x:
     
  2. Keesh

    Keesh New Member

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  3. more off

    more off Moderator

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    :coold: what gun did you use?
     
  4. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

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    if you were at this class, PM me so i know who you are :o
     
  5. JP

    JP Active Member

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    fuckin nice
     
  6. Bloody Sunday

    Bloody Sunday OT Supporter

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  7. Sardaukar

    Sardaukar Active Member

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    Motherfucker. Was this at Metcalf?
     
  8. more off

    more off Moderator

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    ??????? :ugh:
     
  9. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

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    yup. thats such an awesome range.
     
  10. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

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    they taught the method of sling-shot'ing the slide for reloads instead of using the slide release which i did not like.

    their reasoning is that hitting the slide release with your thumb is a fine motor skill that can degrade under stress.

    my reasoning is that hitting the magazine release and pulling the trigger are both fine motor skills that don't degrade under stress, why should hitting the slide release be any different? also, i already have the muscle memory down for hitting that slide release and can get on target faster than with the sling-shot method. when i was doing that during the class, i felt myself taking my eyes off the target while reloading instead of keeping my head up assessing.

    :dunno: it's good to be taught different points of view, but now i know what works for me and what doesnt
     
  11. ZCP M3

    ZCP M3 Active Member

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    Damn. Sounds awesome! Which gun did you use?
     
  12. Sardaukar

    Sardaukar Active Member

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    I always rack the slide. You fail, ninja. Maybe I should instruct.


    Boy you guys would be unprepared. :mamoru:
     
  13. Ebtromba

    Ebtromba Active Member

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    I like how on a board obsessed with all the different guns he still has not mentioned which gun he used.

    for some reason I think he has a sig226 he likes?
     
  14. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

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    sig p226r 9mm in a galco concealable holster
     
  15. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

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    i was the only one with a sig, there were 2 guys with M&Ps, 2-3 1911s and the rest were glocks.

    one girl had a Kahr P9 (that only had 50 rounds through it before the class) that had a malfunction like every other round :ugh2: she borrowed someone else's spare glock.
     
  16. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

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    i didnt think it mattered? :dunno:

    there were no hiccups. i love that gun.
     
  17. more off

    more off Moderator

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    so you did use the 226 ? :confused:
     
  18. Ebtromba

    Ebtromba Active Member

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    it doesn't really. thread was about training and thread delivered.
     
  19. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

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    to satisfy pic nazis:

    [​IMG]

    :cool:
     
  20. more off

    more off Moderator

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    nice leather :coold:
     
  21. GarandBobcat

    GarandBobcat New Member

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    Awesome class. I came so close to beating Mace in a head-to-head at the end of the second day, but I stumble-fucked securing my retained mag and he got ahead of me bigtime.

    I gotta get to more classes.

    Hoss, you up for more carpooling?
     
  22. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

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    sure.


    i also forgot to add that we did off-hand drawing. that was interesting. i would reach over with my non-dominant hand and rotate my gun in my holster, then secure master grip and present with one hand.
     
  23. Hooligan

    Hooligan New Member

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    This sounds alot like the Personal Protection Inside/Outside the Home course I teach in NRA.
     
  24. Hooligan

    Hooligan New Member

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    Just without the legally protective stuff.
     
  25. Hooligan

    Hooligan New Member

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    And you guys shoot alot more.

    NRA doesn't really do 'tactical' stuff.
     

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