WEB Lets Discuss Search Engine Optimization & Keywords

Discussion in 'OT Technology' started by Night Hawk, Apr 13, 2009.

  1. Night Hawk

    Night Hawk Member

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    Ok brotatos, I have a feeling I'll be asking a lot of questions on several different topics soon so please bare with me, I'm learning.

    Current topic of discussion: Search Engine Optimization and Keywords.

    Whats the best way of doing this and can you share any tips? You guys seem like you know what you're doing and do it well, so thats why I'm asking.

    Should I just throw in a million keywords into the meta tags that relate to my content or is their a better, more efficient solution other than plugging in a ton of words and phrases?

    I downloaded a program called PPC Keyword Generator from this link, but I can't figure out how to use it properly and its not too good at helping newbs :uh:

    Any help is greatly appreciated, thank you!


    CLIFFS: Search engine optimization & keywords. Teach me.
     
  2. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    Search engines don't really care about Meta Tags anymore (because they were abused by spammers).

    Pretty much anything that works gets abused by spammers and then loses its value. This is why some people don't like .info domains. They're cheap, therefore spammers buy a ton of them, therefore search engines devalue them (altho this is heavily debated on SEO forums).

    A good search engine rank comes from many things, including:

    How many links you have TO your site from other sites

    The quality of the sites that link to you. For example, a ton of link farms with shit value isn't going to help your site anyway. But imagine if you had a link from an authority site like google, or cnn, or mayo clinic. That would be worth a lot and would help your search engine rank.

    The quality of content on your site. Do you have a bunch of bullshit that is copied from other sites? (whether duplicate content helps or hurts your site is heavily debated on SEO forums)

    You need to have keywords... but not too many (keyword stuffing) and not too few (making your page seem unrelated)


    And there are things that can hurt your site, including:

    Having text that is the same color as the background (such as red text on a red background, essentially making it invisible to human users). Spammers abused this in the past by putting a million keywords on their page but making them seem invisible, the old search engine algorithms would go "wow, this guy has [keyword] a lot on his page, it must be high value" and give them good ranking. Not anymore.

    Having links to shitty sites. If you link to sites that search engines think are spam, it can hurt you. They will assume you are up to no good, just like the spammers you're linking to.


    The goal for the search engines is to give good results to the pages that provide the most value to users. Unfortunately, this is a tough algorithm to create, because when people find out how parts of it work, they can abuse it, and then it really has nothing to do with having a high quality page as much as it does with spamming the search engines and beating them at their game.

    It sort of works like this: One of the things earch engines look at is inbound links. The thinking goes that the more inbound links a page has (other sites linking to it), the more valuable it must be. After all, if all these other sites deem it worthy of a link, it must be pretty good. And on the same note, if a page sucks, then no one would link to it, so if a page has no or few inbound links, then in the search engine's eyes, it must be low quality and therefore not worthy of a high search engine ranking.

    So what happened? Spammers built linkfarms. Thousands of shitty sites that did nothing more than provide links to their other shitty sites. So now you have a shitty site (think "zomg buy V1agr4 0nLin3 y0") with a billion inbound links to it (all from spammer-controlled linkfarms), and the search engines see it and think "whoa, this guy has a billion links, it must be a great site, let's put it at the top!"

    Then the search engines wisen up a bit, and put measures in place to detect linkfarms. So now that v1agr4 site isn't at the top of the results anymore because they've determined that all its inbound links came from linkfarms (which are low quality) so those inbound links don't count for much.

    Repeat this game of cat and mouse a few times between spammers and search engines and you're now at a place where people will create a "money site" (their main site) and then make 10s, 100s, or 1000s of other sites that don't "look like" linkfarms (in the eyes of the search engines) specifically for the purpose of linking to their money sites.

    What kind of sites do they use? blogs, "articles" (think ezinearticles.com, goarticles.com, etc., all those sites are full of fucking bullshit articles written by morons under the guise of "giving information about something" but really they only wrote the article so they could put a link at the bottom back to their money site. Google sees it and goes "link from ezinearticles (an authority site) to this other site, it must be good, let's give it a high ranking."

    Cliffs:

    You need lots of links from non-spam, non-linkfarm sites coming in to your site. One way links are best. The logic is that your site is SO AWESOME that these other sites want to link to it, but you don't want to link back. Think cnn.com. How many people link to cnn? Millions. And how many does cnn link back to? None. Why? Cuz CNN is an authoratative mother fucker and google knows it. That's why CNN is number 1 in search results and your site is not.



    Read this post again. I just gave you more information than you would get from 10 shitty ebooks at Clickbank that you paid $27 each for with titles like "How to RAPE THE SEARCH ENGINES and get to the TOP OF GOOGLE and make TEN MILLION DOLLARS A DAY by working only one hour a week!"
     
  3. Night Hawk

    Night Hawk Member

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    Thanks bro, I'll check out that blog. I just need some quick tips on how to generate some traffic without resorting to paying for ads just yet :hs:
     
  4. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    ^ that was part 1

    Part 2: Keywords

    The idea is to find keywords that have a lot of searches but little competition. There are a million programs you can buy that will do this for you, but you can also do it yourself for free (it just takes a little longer), so don't buy any of them unless you have money to burn, and if you do, you wouldn't have made this thread in the first place.

    Step 1: Find out how much competition there is.

    - go to google.
    - start typing something (let's use "painting" as a starting point)
    - as you type, you'll see google suggestions. "paintings" has 62,000,000 pages
    - hit enter
    - you'll see "results 1-10 of about 176,000,000"

    So basically there are 176 million websites about "painting" and that's a lot of websites to be competing with.

    But "painting" is pretty broad. Let's get some ideas for other keywords in this arena...


    Step 2: Find some related keywords

    Go to this free Keyword Suggestion Tool:
    http://tools.seobook.com/keyword-tools/seobook/

    Type in "painting"

    You will see other related keywords, such as body painting, painting pumpkin faces, paintings, famous paintings, etc.

    It will also show you how many daily searches it gets from goog, yahoo, and msn. There's a bunch of other info like trends where it shows you how popular it has been recently, but ignore that for now. There are other "Keyword suggestion tools" (google it) you can use. They can give you some ideas.

    Take some of these ideas and google them again and see how many results there are. Hopefully less than 176 million.


    Step 3: Check out Google Adwords Keyword Tool
    https://adwords.google.com/select/KeywordToolExternal

    Go here. Type in the keywords you're interested in. We'll use "painting" again.

    Look at the first few results.

    Paintings
    Avg search volume: 2,740,000

    So that means on average (per month) there are 2.7 million searches for "paintings."

    This is how you find out how many people are searching for something.


    Step 4: put it all together

    Basically spend time finding keywords that a) have a lot of searches but b) DON'T have a lot of websites. The thinking is that by doing that, you will be placing yourself in a popular niche without a lot of competition.

    For example, if you try to rank for "paintings" you will fail, because you will be competing with 176 million other sites, most of which have more authority and more links than you.

    But if you try to rank for giant penis named meethord, you will see that there are zero websites with those terms, so you will be number 1.

    Unfortunately, no one is searching for that, so no one will find your page.


    Again, I just gave you the info you could get in shitty ebooks called "How to PICK THE BEST NICHE and DESTROY, DOMINATE, and RAPE your competition like it ain't no thang!"


    You should pretty much paypal me $47 (strikethrough) $37 (strikethrough) $27 (YOURS FOR A LIMITED TIME!!!) for all this info :mamoru:
     
  5. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    Oh, I just realized I didn't quantify anything for you.

    As for as what constitutes "a lot of competition," I've heard recommendations that you want between "anything under 20,000 sites" and "anything under 100,000 sites" of competition. So for example, "paintings" is definitely over that amount. But "bird turds", on the other hand, has only 70,100 sites, so it would be significantly less competition. Unfortunately, it has only 28 searches per month, so it would be pointless to use that one.

    Finding good keywords is hard. That's why people come to forums and ask how to do it. "All the good ones are taken."
     
  6. Night Hawk

    Night Hawk Member

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    Thanks for the info guys, I appreciate it!

    So how would you recommend getting these links back to your site when you are first starting out?

    edit: just saw part 2. excellent advice. thanks bro.
     
  7. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    It pains me to say this, because these are all retarded and again, it becomes an issue of "who can best figure out how the search engines work?" rather than "who can create sites with good content."

    There's a few ways to do it:

    - Write articles about your topic and put a link to your site in the author's bio box at the end. Submit these articles to ezinearticles, goarticles, articledashboard, etc.

    - Try to get links from authoritative sites. A few links from sites with PR5 or PR6 are worth more than a ton of links from shitty PR0 sites.

    - Build a bunch of (free) blogs and link them to your sites. Pretend like the blogs belong to other people. remember you want the search engines to think "wow, this guy is awesome, look how many people are linking to him!"

    - Go nuts with Web 2.0 shit. Digg your site. Reddit your site. Stumble Upon your site. Etc. The reason all these sites suck now is because they're full of people pimping their own sites. Anyway, Google will see lots of Diggs for your site and assume other people think it's awesome and so it will help your rankings.

    - Spam the shit out of other people's blogs and include links to your sites. Actually, be careful with this one, because it pisses people off. And if you spam too much, I hear people can report it and then google will devalue your site.

    So some people say there are other rules you need to follow tho, like if you create a ton of blogs, they need to be on different IPs because otherwise google will see that they're all on the same IP as your money site and must be run by the same person and then discredit them.


    Really, it gets annoying. It used to be that making a website was fun. Now, making the website is still kinda cool, but you have to spend most of your time doing the shit I listed above which means you have less time to spend on adding valuable content to your site which means your sites ends up being less cool than it could.

    Better get started writing those articles.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2009
  8. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    Disregard that last post. What I meant was:



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    ---------------------------------------------
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