SRS Learning Self Defense

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by DiggityDogg, Nov 22, 2006.

  1. DiggityDogg

    DiggityDogg Guest

    Most people aren't aware that traditional martial arts have been exposed in the past decade as fairly useless in a real life scenario. This was first brought to the limelight when the Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) sport began in November 1993. The UFC to date has aired 65 PPV shows and around 10 Cable shows.

    In the beginning there were very few rules at all and it pitted the martial art styles against each other. What was shocking to the world was when Tae Kwon Do, Karate, Savate, Kenpo, Aikido, Kung Fu, etc, pretty much all of the traditional arts, were consistantly and sounded defeated. Even more surprising to everyone was that wrestling (real, not fake) and other grappling arts like Brazilian Jiu-jitsu (a modified version of traditional JJ) emerged as a undeniably and clearly dominating force. The techniques from the traditional arts were consistantly negated and defeated when a wrestler got their hands on them-which also was surprisingly easy. It wasn't even a fluke as it was pretty much every single fight ending up this way as more and more traditional masters thought that "they" could be the one to prove their techniques were legit. Each and everyone of them failed.

    That was the past, and this sport has evolved into MMA, Mixed Martial Arts, where the techniques that actually work in a real situation are taken from each and every art and incorporated into a combatants arsenal. These days MMA is no longer about style versus style because that question has been answered. Today the sport is more along the lines of athletes competing against other athletes to see who is the most well rounded. Grappling is still the root of all of todays fighters because without it you're useless.

    Here are some links that will show you someinteresting footage of the early days when traditional martial artists challenged the emergence of grappling dominance.

    A kenpo blackbelt challenging Brazilian JiuJitsu grappling in a no rules match
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naWEbPDz80w

    A Kung Fu fighter challenging BJJ in a no rules match
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN6PvPCrStI

    A Tae Kwon Do Black Belt challenging BJJ in a no rules match
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN-3R-h1wUI

    A Hapkido Instructor challenges BJJ
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ciYtazMQE4

    This one is funny as Mr. Utah, a body builder, challenges a skinny BJJ blackbelt to a no rules match
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RnvaBMlNpI

    A Karate guy challenges BJJ to a no rules match.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eoRlhQYACw

    Another funny one as Steve-o of Wild Boys grapples a BJJ girl and the woman totally whips him bad.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSh6hQMvXWg

    Keep in mind that this is more of a style against style thing. These days the sport of MMA has evolved where you have the best athletes learning BJJ, learning wrestling, learning boxing, learning kickboxing, learning Muay Thai, etc. These cross trained athletes of today would demolish anyone in the video's above because they are evolved. The point of the video's above was to show traditional martial arts exposed as being less than practical in a real self defense situation as they have no real grappling training whatsoever. An FBI study even said that 90% of all confrontations (without weapons) end up in a grappling position on the ground. If the vast majority of these situations end up like this, it shows just how unpractical traditional arts like Karate are when they don't give it any real focus.

    Not to mention, if you've ever been in a High School wrestling room, you see those kids training over and over again by applying their learned moves against someone who is resisting at 100% albeit (no punching). I've been in several traditional martial arts styles and schools when I was younger and it was never like this. I never once was able to, nor did I see training where a guy was allowed to resist you at 100%, especially by grappling you. You can't just instinctively be able to fend off someone trying to put you down if they've trained taking people down 1000 times with people resisting being taken down. They're simply too experienced.

    I know this is far off of topic but it kinda got brought up by the OP and I think this is very important information. I hate to see people thinking they know how to truly defend themselves when they are completely unaware of what it's really about. For some people this is a hard pill to swallow and their first reaction would be to deny it but it doesn't change facts. It was hard for me to swallow originally but after 13 years of MMA and seeing the same situation played out 1000 times when a traditional art pits itself against a grappler... you just can't change facts.
    A friend of mine was an incredible Tae Kwon Do competetor. He went and found the best and most competetive schools he could find and trained every day as hard as he could and ended up placing very high at National Tournaments. However my friend holds no illusions. Even he will tell you that he isn't learning how to defend himself in a fight. He says he does it for sport alone and that there are plenty of untrained thugs that would put him down if they wanted to.

    If any parents here want their child to learn the best self defense possible at a cheap price... enter them into wrestling. It offers discipline, incredible physical conditioning, a potential college scholarship (if they end up being good enough), and a practicle self defense skill.

    (Please no one bring up multiple assailants because diplomacy and track & field would be the best skill in this situation, not a Traditional MA.)

    I hope people found this information helpful.
     
  2. dev

    dev deal ribit

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    :eek3: read it all and found it very helpful.
     
  3. konrad109

    konrad109 New Member

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    Wrestling will definetley give you a much better base for defending yourself than TKD or most stirking arts. A decent wresting/jj/judo guy who can keep his hands up and chin down would wipe the floor with almost anybody who doesn't have any grappling experience. When a pro boxer gets in trouble, he can usually clinch to regain his senses, and there is very little his opponent can do with strikes to stop him. If nothing else, the average wrestlers conditioning could wear down 90% of people to where they don't want to fight.

    Having said that, wrestling, jiu jitsu, and MMA are still sports. The opponent or atleast the referee are looking out for your safety. I wrestled in high school (although not very well), and when I was attacked, I froze for the first few crucial seconds that could easily have cost me my life if my attacker was intent on killing me. Awareness, aggression, the willingness to hurt someone, and conditioning are just as important as skill. Wrestling gives you the conditioning and skill, and some aggression. But you need to very quickly become aware of threats so you have the time to mentally prepare to hurt someone.

    Pro fighters know months in advance that they are going to fight and are paid to do it. In a self defense situation most people keep their guard down to avoid escalation. The first person to recognize there is no backing out or that a fight is about to take place and strikes first will probably win.
     
  4. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    I saw this thread title and was going to say "if you want to learn how to actually FIGHT, study Muay Thai/BJJ."

    I used to be into traditional arts, too. I wanted to believe so badly that if I just trained hard enough, the old ways would be effective.

    But you see again and again, people with YEARS of training in traditional arts being beaten by MMA guy with one month of experience.
     
  5. The Secretary

    The Secretary My domestic skills will rock your socks off!

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    I loved doing martial arts when I lived at my old house. Its just too expensive here to do it. I got my black belt back in 99 in tae kwon do. Ive never had to use it but its nice to know I could defend myself if I had too.
     
  6. Mugwump

    Mugwump Guest

    Sooo...

    What's bothering you in this thread?
     
  7. Darketernal

    Darketernal Watch: Aria The Origination =)

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    Personally i will stick with 'do not fight evil ,with evil'. Also in a real life scenario (strange because i actually talked about this to someone recently) if the person opposing you shoots you with a gun, well you can say your 48 years of hard working martial arts goodbye to a kid with a gun. :sad2: although i won't disregard the good impact it has for your health and on your body, realistically it has almost no role anymore in modern society.
     
  8. konrad109

    konrad109 New Member

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    Not everybody carries a gun, and not everybody pulls it out for no reason. At any moment somebody could put a brick through your head, hit you with a car, or shoot you with a gun. Thats not something you can prepare for. But unless you're in a gang or mafia, odds are you won't be dealing with too many attacks like that. If you do deal with that, then awareness and good physical conditioning can improve your chances of surviving.

    More likely you will accidentally bump someone, hit on the wrong girl, or just run into an asshole who wants to show off to his friends. Unless you're hanging out in some really tough areas thats rarely enough reason to get shot, but it is enough to get someone to try to sucker punch you or shove you, in which case martial arts and awareness become very useful.
     
  9. Jimeigh

    Jimeigh Every rook and jay in the corvidae have been raven

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    this, though maybe not in the right subforum, is a very good thread.
     
  10. Pringles

    Pringles New Member

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    so as a tall intimidating(not by me wanting to, but just because I'll tall) white guy what is the best thing for me to learn. I've been jumped multiple times as I live in a not so safe area and each time I've hit the situation the same response in the first 15 seconds is to give in. After that I think of ways to beat them, but by then they has established power and I just give in and drag on the situation long enough to give them the least I can offer. What should I learn? Just fast hit and run? Any thoughts I've been thinking of classes just not sure what is best for modern gang style of fighting where they want what I have.
     
  11. Arclight

    Arclight Hypercube

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    I have to agree with diggity. I'm no fan of UFC but I've watched a few matches here and there and the outcome is almost always the same. Wrestler takes the non-wrestler guy down and then it's over. :sad2:

    However in self defense you can always go for the tried and true kick to teh nuts. No one says you have to fight cleanly on the streets.
     
  12. Darketernal

    Darketernal Watch: Aria The Origination =)

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    Every grab towards violence is wrong.
     
  13. MattThom01

    MattThom01 New Member

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    darketernal, while I agree that violence is wrong, it is foolhardy to believe that there will never be a situation that may reuire you to defend yourself as a last resort.

    Seriously, some of your posts sound so "new agey", it hurts.
     
  14. Bruticus

    Bruticus half dead OT Supporter

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    Totally agree.

    I've never been in a proper fight, nor do I intend to get in one but I know that if someone does jump me I will hit back. It isn't really in me to just take shit, I'm not going to just sit there and get pummelled because I think violence is wrong. I'll do whatever I can to get out of that situation in as best shape as I can, whether that is via beating the other guy to a pulp or running from a gang.

    This post is full of good information and is very correct. I, however, have no real interest in fighting (beyond the sport aspect of something like TKD) so I wouldn't actually take up BJJ. A few of my friends do it and have invited me along but it doesn't interest me.
     
  15. Mugwump

    Mugwump Guest

    History has shown that pacifists are raped and eaten.
     
  16. Carrots

    Carrots New Member

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    For very small, light people who will never get picked on by people their own size, is wrestling still better defense than traditional arts?
     
  17. fhfn2000

    fhfn2000 New Member

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    in for answer. might take up bjj. :dunno:
     
  18. Darketernal

    Darketernal Watch: Aria The Origination =)

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    38`You have heard that the law says, "Take an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth."

    39But I tell you, do not fight with anyone who does wrong to you. But if someone hits you on one side of your face, turn the other side to him also.

    43`You have heard that the law says, "Love your neighbour and hate your enemy."

    44But I tell you, love your enemies. Ask God to do good to those who trouble you.

    46If you love only those who love you, what reward will you get? Even the tax collectors do that. 47Do you speak to your brothers only? If so, you are not doing any better than other people. Even people who do not believe in God do that. 48You must be good in every way, as your Father in heaven is good in every way.'




    So basically what you call new age is actually as old as the bible.
     
  19. johan

    johan Active Member

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    How about this quote:

    "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun."

    Now who said that? Some rabid violence freak who is without compassion or wisdom...? Some loutish brute who does not understand the Living Dharma?

    In fact, none other than the Dalai Lama while speaking in Oregon on May 15, 2001
     
  20. Swerve

    Swerve OT Supporter

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    True that the UFC's/MMA has exposed the weaknesses in Trad martial arts and although MMA is very good for a street confrontation it still is'nt realistic.

    www.geoffthompson.com

    This guy does a lot of true street confrontation training. Street fights have no rules. Biting and eye gouging are effective techniques which should be employed if attacked.

    Best bit of advice apart from run...learn to hit, fuking hard!
     
  21. Crush

    Crush Epidural hematoma up in this bitch

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    And people who were quick to violence were also destroyed.

    The saying live by the sword, die by the sword comes to mind.
     
  22. konrad109

    konrad109 New Member

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    Every human (or any other animal) can be violent. Its not like there are two kinds of people, violent and non violent. The quickness with which they become violent can vary though, but I think that has more to do with socialization rather than breeding.

    The best way to avoid violence is to be very good at it. That way you don't feel the need to prove yourself over some stupid remark. That sort of confidence also repels potential predatory humans because you won't be an easy target.
     
  23. konrad109

    konrad109 New Member

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    I have some of his stuff. He's really good and has a great philosophy.
     
  24. sublime335

    sublime335 New Member

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    I'm confused... why is this in the asylum?
     
  25. TigreTek

    TigreTek omega member OT Supporter

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    move to the cage?
     

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