Ladies: be gentle

Discussion in 'Vaginarium' started by JohnJohnJohnson, Dec 26, 2006.

  1. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    As part of my continuing hobby I went out to a bar two nights ago. When I came in I saw mostly 35 year old men and some younger women. I'm 21. At the bar there were two girls around 26 years old. One of them was really attractive. As I walked past they looked at me discretely and then made eye contact with each other and smiled.

    I was on my way to the bathroom. While I was in there I was thinking to myself, I should approach those two. I should go meet them. I gathered my courage, walked out of the bathroom, towards the two women. Went right past the women, and then right out of the bar. :hs: Chickened out.

    I called a friend and told him what I was up to. I asked if I was doing the right thing. Just to hear him affirm it. For moral support. Naturally he said I was doing the right thing. It's what a lot of guys wish they had the willpower to do anyway.

    I went back in. My heart rate was through the roof but I walked over. They turned towards me. I said, "Hi," smiled, waited. They gave me that shriveling skeptical look: who are YOU. However, I was just saying "Hi." Thus I wasn't phased by the frost, and just let the silence hang for a second, which eventually prompted them to say, "Hi," back.

    "I'm JJJ," I added, feeling the temperature lower but still giving off a warm vibe.

    "Ok." Said the pretty one. :run:

    I paused again. Nothing.

    "What are your names?" I said finally, hoping someone would kick me out or maybe even blow up the bar. They gave me their frosty names. I said, "Nice to meet you." At which time I reached my boiling point (or I guess my freezing point, would make more sense), smiled amicably and left.

    I know it's something I'll have to get used to. If I hadn't gotten an indicator of interest I would not have been as off guard. But I wasn't expecting the cold front, because I thought these girls had shown some interest when I walked in the first time.

    So then I hopped to another bar. I look around and the only person my age is the bartender, who, unfortunately, happens to be another attractive female. At this point I was feeling lonely and just wanted to connect with someone, not even take them home or anything. So I did something very inexperienced.

    See, I was sensible enough to realize that the cold front with those other girls was not directed at ME, specifically, but rather it was directed towards the 1,000 previous guys who approached them. No hard feelings. I understood the problem.

    So I asked the bartender if it was possible to get her name, without also hitting on her. Because I wanted to avoid the cold front, and just chat with someone who wasn't a 40 year old businessman.

    She looked so threatened. Like, her whole face went dead. I was telling the truth too. I was looking for somebody just to talk to. Ugh. I guess it still sounded like a pickup line. She looked at me like I was the biggest asshole she'd ever seen. I wasn't even trying to pick her up. I'm sitting there thinking, wow, this is actually ridiculous. I just ... smiled meekly ... sat there. Twiddled my fucking thumbs and I felt pretty bad for upsetting her. Eventually she decided I wasn't going to say anything else, so she relaxed and walked about ten feet away from me.

    It's all part of the learning experience, I guess.

    I just thought I'd share this situation from a guy's point of view. Ladies play nice please. Thanks!
     
  2. MattThom01

    MattThom01 New Member

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    Two things you have to remember JJJ, that "can I get your name without hitting on you" statement sounded really weird...and she's the bartender. She's not necessarily there to be social like everyone else...she's there working. She may feel threatened because she's not looking for people to hit on her while she's working.
     
  3. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    matt, when you're in field you don't want to be spending time analyzing what She will think if you do this, what She'll think if you'll do that, etc., because it just makes you more anxious.

    of course i can explain why she reacted the way she did. however, it would be more constructive to hear alternative approaches i could have taken, rather than why it was justified or not justified or somewhat justified for her to freeze me out.

    coming up with alternate approaches is more useful to me than monday morning quarterbacking. why? because given a different outcome, the game in review would change:

    when i was in the field, I took your little story into account, and I took my little story into account. for my purposes it's not about the story but about what works and what doesn't.

    so what I have learned, really, is that just being upfront about not being a threat, evidently does NOT convey that you are not a threat.
     
  4. BradUF

    BradUF Guest

    Bar tenders are very social and I have never had a problem getting their name. Not that they would remember me.
     
  5. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    Maybe it was an off night for her. Maybe I was giving off a shitty vibe.
    Teh ladies should temper their shutdowns. So unnecessary.
     
  6. Kinks

    Kinks Sup. OT Supporter

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    Have you ever thought of pursuing a life as an engineer? :)

    Sounds like the same kind of night I'd had, if I tried to hit on women.

    In retrospect, you failed the 3 second rule. The penny dropped way too late, you should have started chatting them up as soon as they made eye contact. By going to the bathroom, then leaving the bar, then going back in 5 minutes later you indicated to them that you were spineless and had no courage. Instant turn-off, which is why their positive interest evaporated and they just wanted to get rid of you when you actually tried to talk to them.

    Sounds like I'm not the only one who needs "JUST FUCKING DO IT" tattooed on their palm :)

    Never mind, treat it as a learning experience. I chatted up a chick a week back and chickened out on getting her phone number, so I'm in the same boat as you. You just gotta chalk it up to experience and do better next time.
     
  7. BradUF

    BradUF Guest

    Also, I give off a Im not a threat vibe. Not that its a good thing.
     
  8. Kinks

    Kinks Sup. OT Supporter

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    actually the non-threat vibe works wonders. one of my workmates is pretty much asexual, and women don't feel threatened by him and talk to him very freely. I seem to have a lot more trouble, because I actually want to hook up with them :dunno:
     
  9. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    Correct.
    I would be surprised if they even noticed my cowardly behavior in that sense. I think it just seemed like I came in, didn't notice them, disappeared for a bit and then reappeared.
     
  10. Kinks

    Kinks Sup. OT Supporter

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    Whatever the situation, the time gap between them noticing you and you trying to open them was far too long. It could imply to them that you were busy tuning hotter chicks and they were the last ditch effort, or a myriad of other possibilities.

    Bottom line, if you're not already talking to other chicks you should talk to them immediately. Talking to other chicks is OK because it makes you appear to have more social value, and womens' competitive streak will come out and she'll want to meet you to find out what made the other women interested enough to give you the time of day.

    As a side note, I get SO much more attention (looks, friendliness etc) out of women if I hang out with any female friend of mine. The fact that one women can stand my company makes the rest of them a lot more interested. Part of it is probably the whole "non-threatening" thing..
     
  11. BeHeadR

    BeHeadR Only Slightly Insane

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    AKA an IOI -- here is your problem, stop reading stupid PUA books.
     
  12. Kinks

    Kinks Sup. OT Supporter

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    no, the problem is that the IOI threw him off guard.

    As it does for most AFCs, myself included.

    The correct mental conditioning is to have an immediate state of being ready for an IOI, and acting on it rather than going "oh, er... oh shit..." and dropping the ball.
     
  13. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    The problem with people who are highly analytical but have low emotional quotients is that fast comprehension does not occur during social interactions. Telling someone just to "be himself," for example, might mean something helpful or profound, but whatever wavelength that message travels on is not one I can receive, so don't bother.

    I have seen the reverse, with people who have high emotional quotients and low analytical intelligence. What are to me the most absurdly obvious logical fallacies are utterly invisible to certain, otherwise functional people.

    As huntz0r once put it (roughly), these acronyms and narrow-minded descriptions, like, "IOI," refer to things that naturally extraverted people already know intuitively. The difference is that I have to break these things down into logical steps in order to understand them.

    It's either phrases like alpha-nice and IOI, or I stay stuck in shit for the rest of my life, which is an option that no amount of social pressure from backseat drivers could make me choose. Shit, I feel SO much pressure from people to whom I mention this, NOT to do whatever I'm doing. I'm somehow guilty. Embarrassing, immoral.

    With women, this is more understandable. Not because what I'm doing in any way harms them, but because they don't share my physical makeup. It is as if I am trying to discuss my ongoing starvation with someone who gets fed intravenously. For the most part, they don't get it. I say, I haven't eaten in a week. They say, It's all in my head - I just need to stop feeling bad about it. What do I say then? Not only do I have to try to explain the hunger, which is incredibly awkward, but I also have to describe the negative side-effects tied in to that prolonged hunger - the withering, the decay, and the downward momentum. None of which have they experienced. At best I will get a sympathetic - but STILL uncomprehending - go ahead. "I don't really get it, but I guess you're not hurting anybody, so do what you need to."

    I'm sure you understand where I'm coming from and will stop posting garbage. :wavey:
     
  14. bandwagon

    bandwagon Copy/Paste

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    The first set: Don't open by asking for their name... do you do this with other guys? Not likely... you just say what you want to say ("Wow, can't believe he made that field goal") and then turn back to your beer/game/whatever. Focus on being non-reactive. You want THEM to react to you. Reminds me of a time I opened a cute girl in the line for the ATM by turning around and saying "You better not try to steal my pin... I'm watching you." and then backturning her. She re-opened me immediately. Make them chase you immediately.

    Set 2: Again, don't ask for her name. Make her seek rapport with you. Never say you aren't hitting on her because the subcommunication is "I'm hitting on you". Set the frame of "hey, I'm cool and fun... OF COURSE they want to interact with me."
     
  15. Toda Party

    Toda Party .....

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    I think the problem came from what was going on inside of you, and how you said the things that you said. Girls get freaked out by guys who come off as weird, and it definitely seems like that was the case with the bartender.
     
  16. PocoDiablo

    PocoDiablo New Member

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    I think you did fine assuming it seems like you're just starting doing this. But let's see how you could have done BETTER, shall we? :bigthumb:

    :rofl: Actually, this could have been a good thing that you didn't "revolve" around them or go straight for the kill. You know, relaxing, taking your time, having a life, making them wonder what was up?

    And you could have sat down and turned your back on them.

    Off to a good start, huh? I hope you were smiling, sitting up straight, had eye contact, and did not look down or away.

    Meh, not so hot right there. This is what every other guy has been doing. And you're a "spoiler" right there. You gave away the opportunity to have nameless anonymous sex with them. ;) Okay, not really, but you did give away the mystery. If anything, give them a fake name next time, something really obscure and obvious. You know ... make a joke! Don't "spoil" it by telling them facts. Joke with them.

    Shit, she's got a one word vocabulary!

    Look, this is the woman test. She is testing you to see if you can blow through her defenses. Most guys will quickly give up. Like you were about to. How about blow through her? Say something like "Hey, I'm not from here, and I'm looking for someplace cool to hang out. You know of any places?" They will likely have a cold response, and that's when you bust on them. "Oh, shit, come on! What, is this the first time you've ever been out in public? Are you some kind of hermits? Look, I'm just looking for some place cool to go, and I'm sure you know SOME place, right? Haven't you even heard of any place cool?" Bust on them, tell them they don't have friends, they have no life, whatever, in some sort of OBVIOUSLY playful and friendly way. Get them to open up.

    Ouch. And how boring of you! Tearing personal information out of them!

    No, you quit. You went the wrong way down the path, made no progress, did not learn you were going the wrong way, and bailed.

    Yeah, truth be told, I would have bailed too after that exchange. But the point is that you were boring and they were trying to get rid of you. And it worked!

    They DID! The problem was that (1) you approached them way too fast [you could have hung back, kept checking them out from afar, ordered yourself a drink, then had the bartender go over to them and ask them what kind of drink THEY were going to buy for you, and then waved and walked over. Or any number of other things. Instead, you went in for the kill, cold, and were flailing. Next time, sit next to them and IGNORE them. Order a drink. Call a friend on the phone, and ask him where the hell he is and let him know that you're "going to leave without you if you don't get there soon." then hang up. THEN maybe consider talking to them. Maybe say "Hey, you know of any good clubs around here? Someplace with cool people?" insinuating that they are NOT cool, and if they complain about it (hopefully) you can give them shit like "Well, ARE you cool? Do something cool, prove it to me." See, you need to relax and treat them like PEOPLE you know.]

    Note: Feeling desperate and pathetic. This is a bad "place" to be when trying to meet people. If you're not in a great mood, STOP trying to work on your game!

    But did you understand the solution? Did you figure out what you did wrong?

    Ouch!

    Next time try "Hey, what's up? If know where any cool clubs are, you know - some place having a special party - I won't hit on you until next time I come in. Okay?" and when she says no... bust on her! "What? What are you, some hermit? You work in a bar, you should know the social scene!" Roll your eyes, smile, then tell her "Look, I'll ask again, and if you can't come up with the BEST thing in town you have to give me a drink for free. Okay, so what's a cool place to go tonight?" Then give her all sorts of shit no matter what she says. "Club T? Oh, geez, that place sucks! What kind of information is that? That's like Cold War intelligence, I need something 2006. You owe me a drink, now try again!"

    Well that's the problem! Stop telling the truth! If you want to meet ANYone, male or female, STOP TELLING THE TRUTH!

    Never be serious!

    If you want to talk to someone, call a friend, a drinking buddy, anyone. Don't "talk" to strangers. No one wants to hear your life story right off the bat, so to speak. We all get down, but no one wants to hear it from someone else unless you're paying them.

    Yes, and what did you learn?

    You should have learned:

    1. Start a little slower. Don't ask names, NEVER be serious.

    2. Sitting down next to someone does not mean you have to talk to them. In fact, you can ignore them and do your own thing.

    3. Call your friend and invite him to hang out.

    4. Body language is ever powerful. What does yours say about you?

    5. Talk to people of all ages.

    6. Talk to men AND women. Talk to people of ALL ages. Ask the men for tips on chicks. Ask how they'd do it.

    7. Blow through excuses. "I have a boyfriend." response is "Oh please, not that old BS line. Is that the best you can come up with? I thought you'd be MUCH better than THAT old hack!"

    8. When someone gives you a negative reaction, THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU JUST DID and never do it again. In fact, do the opposite. Trial and error until you figure things out.

    9. Don't waste your time on pissy/rude people. Don't be kiss-ass nice to them either. Find people who are happy/animated/laughing and talk to them! Why waste time on someone who probably just got dumped, fired, or is just plain a bitch? ONLY talk to happy people! If you talk to bitches you will either learn to handle bitches (barely) or get stuck with one. Personally, I don't waste my time.

    I want to be with a happy, healthy, well adjusted woman so I only talk to women who are like that, plain and simple.
     
  17. PocoDiablo

    PocoDiablo New Member

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    I hate this mentality - "Don't learn" is what you're saying. :squint: Why would you tell anyone to NOT try? :dunno:

    Granted, not all those books are 100% gold, but they can help guys understand that there are ways to improve yourself to meet people. I've read a lot of those "stupid" books and there IS a lot of stupid shit in them, but we can take the good and work with it.

    Go read EVERYTHING YOU CAN. Figure out what will work, won't work, or works for you. The whole point is to make you THINK. :wavey:
     
  18. PocoDiablo

    PocoDiablo New Member

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    What, no more input? :dunno: I'm not perfect...
     
  19. Toda Party

    Toda Party .....

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    Hmm... well next time, don't call your friend before talking to a woman. You obviously were thinking about it A LOT, and the women picked up on it. You came off as nervous/sketchy. Same thing with the bartender. No need to make it a point that you're not hitting on her. Do you do that when you talk to guys? Do you ask if you can "get their name"? You were acting weird and the bartender picked up on it. Go out and focus on having fun.
     
  20. xinster

    xinster New Member

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    after reading the first post i stopped reading every other post, more like, i was waiting until i got to poco's lol
     
  21. drjamima

    drjamima Active Member

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    :werd: me too. But after you left the bar, that killed any chance you might of had with them. It really becomes a now or never type of scenario
     
  22. Kinks

    Kinks Sup. OT Supporter

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    IN like a motherfucker.... that's me in a nutshell :rofl:

    The "just be yourself" line is a cop-out. Being yourself has done squat for you so far. You shouldn't be a completely fake persona, but you should figure out how to be awesome and make women want you. So you're still you, just better :)

    Poco, good advice as always!
     
  23. huntz0r

    huntz0r New Member

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    I had a similar experience to this last week. Two girls at a table and one kept looking at me. I didn't approach immediately since this was inside with a rock band performing and there was no place for me to join them. Upon approaching them later, I got blank stares from the one, and her friend took preemptive evasive action with the tried and true casual-boyfriend-mention. I then proceeded to try too hard and be unfunny, which helped approximately none.

    Another Pocowned thread. I clearly need a lot of work on my reactions to hotness and coldness.
     
  24. caribou

    caribou New Member

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    poco gyad damn son. knowledge jewels 24/7. two things stick out:

    1. the importance of a timely response to IOI (take away the PUA slang if you want). Last thursday night i was at a lounge and walked by this girl, felt her eyes on me, and passed her. About 3 feet past before i realized the error of my ways. I turned around, spit game, and got the number. The game wasn't important (I dont remember one specific thing about what was said); the timing was. Turning around and responding is what did it.

    2. If you're not in a good mood, dont compete. You gotta get the mind right. Not to introduce an inappropriate analogy, but when an athlete has his best performances it's because his mind is where it's supposed to be for whatever event in which he/she is competing. same with hollering at girls. you gotta be in the mood to have fun if you're gonna act fun and shit,

    3. dont get so stressed out about methodology!
     
  25. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    As for #1, I agree. As for #2, I'm not going to wait around for the one day when I'm in a good mood to go out. As for #3, if I could feel unstressed on command, I would already be doing that.
     

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