MIL Kerry's votes on the Military

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by merlinski, Jul 20, 2004.

  1. merlinski

    merlinski and I'm his friend, Jesus

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    One of the most common anti-Kerry arguments I've heard is that he hates the military and votes against new weapons programs. Every time I post information to the contrary, the conservative voices dissappear. So I want to know how you refute these facts:

    Kerry voted in the early 90's against 3 major programs - the trident thermonuclear weapon delivery system, the B-2 bomber thermonuclear weapon delivery system, and the missile defense shield. Kerry also voted in 1996 to cut $6.5 billion from defense in order to pay for, among other things, 100,000 new police officers in the US. However, since 1997, Kerry has been a regular supporter of military appropriations.

    On the other hand, the Bush administration cut $200 million from "Impact Aid", the program that helps children of military families get education. They also attempted to decrease imminent-danger pay from $225 to $150 a month. Furthermore, in his 2004 budget, President Bush decreased military construction spending by $1.5 billion.

    So what you have here are 2 candidates who both have tried to cut military spending at points during their careers. The difference is, Kerry wanted to cut it during a time of peace, and to use the money to hire police officers. Bush tried to cut pay for soldiers during a time of war, in order to lessen the damage done by his tax cut.
     
  2. merlinski

    merlinski and I'm his friend, Jesus

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    That page listed 13 major weapons systems, and times when Kerry "voted against them". 11 of them appeared on 1 appropriations bill in 1990, and the 2 others appeared in a similar appropriations bill in 1995. Now, the problem with that is that appropriations bills are broad measures which outline the money that the entire military gets to spend for that year. So they are saying that Kerry voted against those things because he voted against the appropriations bill. That logic doesn't work because a vote against an appropriations bill isn't necessarily a vote not to fund the program at all. If it was, anyone who voted against it would be voting not to fund the military at all for the entire year. If someone has a problem with a bill, but is not a member of a committee capable of marking it up or cannot get their amendment passed, the only thing they can do is vote against it and hope that it goes back to the floor.

    If you don't understand that, here's an example:
    John McCain voted against House Resolution 4461 in 2000. This was an appropriations bill for, among other things, the FDA. Using the logic exhibited on the site you linked to, John McCain voted against the FDA and doesn't want our food and drugs to be regulated.
     
  3. Huey_P

    Huey_P Guest

    good post MERLINSKI
     
  4. Huey_P

    Huey_P Guest

    u obviously have NO clue what is involved in making and passing legislation.

    Senators dont just vote on a massive, irresponsible, pork-barrel filled piece of legislation simply to "up defense spending"..

    do u know how quickly we would go bankrupt and lose all our rights if every Senator voted "YES" on every piece of legislation, simply because they agreed with one or two provisions out of possible hundreds?


    learn about government first, smart guy.
     
  5. merlinski

    merlinski and I'm his friend, Jesus

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    He could have, and the bill did get passed, but you don't know why he didn't. I don't either, but if he disagreed with the provisions for a certain program, or even if he didn't think that enough money was given, he would have voted against it. I don't think you can make judgements like "voted to kill a program" based on a nay vote in an appropriations bill.
     
  6. Huey_P

    Huey_P Guest

    i am polite.


    however i dont find it very polite that u dare throw around accusations against Kerry and his voting record without having any idea of the process behind passing legislation.
     
  7. merlinski

    merlinski and I'm his friend, Jesus

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    I don't think the vote against the bill had anything to do with being liberal. 5 of the 16 votes against the bill came from Republicans, so it would seem that voting against it had more to do with a personal issue with how the money was being spent.
     
  8. Huey_P

    Huey_P Guest

    republicans just think that calling someone a "liberal" is the most effective way to get re-elected.

    -smh-


    in political science terms, "LIBERAL" simply means "desire for change", while "CONSERVATIVE" means "maintaining the status quo"

    if u think America is perfect right now, that we're headed in the right direction and nothing can get any better than it already is, by all means, be conservative.


    but if u want a change for a better life and a new direction for this country and the average american people, then youre a "liberal"


    now please end this stupid ass "youre a liberal! youre the most liberal! liberal media! youre all liberals!" bullshit, as if there is any merit to it whatsoever.
     
  9. merlinski

    merlinski and I'm his friend, Jesus

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    And I think we can agree that the bill would be a helluva boring read.
     
  10. Huey_P

    Huey_P Guest

    blah blah blah.

    i let MERLIN go in depth with u because YOUVE NEVER ACTUALLY PRESENTED A VALID POINT.

    u make rhetorical arguments that arent even worth a rebuttal.


    if MERLIN wants to rebut them, then thats his prerogative.
     
  11. Lad

    Lad Guest

    All I need to hear from Kerry is that he wants to axe the Marine Corps..... Possibly integrate us into the Army. FUCK THAT BULLSHIT. I hope he loses for that simple fact. People become MArines because they dont want to cop out to an easy branch. EVERYONE knows that it is tougher to become a Marine then any other branch, thus making us more hardened killers.... When have we ever failed the U.S.?.... Why the hell would you want to get rid of us? That pisses me off and makes me want to go out and slaughter some more insurgents...
     

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