Kalypso on Relationships

Discussion in 'Vaginarium' started by Kalypso, Jun 19, 2007.

  1. Kalypso

    Kalypso New Member

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    First of all, my views and this thread are based on getting a lasting, healthy relationship. Know that I have no interest in pursuing people just for sex. I am more concerned with the difference between a personal/emotional relationship and a relationship for sex, and whether or not you can realize which you want, and which you are in.

    If you want to understand the intricacies of other peoples manipulation, read what Yail posts, he very eloquently tells you how to understand and respond to it.



    Many of the standard dating practices are just exercises in lying and manipulation. For many people, they just want sex, which is fine. But if you are looking for a real, lasting relationship, these lies, games and deception are a WASTE OF YOUR TIME. You don't find a good personal relationship by tricking someone into bed. You do it by first loving and being happy with yourself, being happy single, and then getting to know others and knowing what you want in a partner, and finding it. It takes a long time to do, but being yourself and expecting the same of others is the ONLY way to find a really good relationship. Lying to each other throughout a long-term relationship is terribly poisonous, and everyone seems to do this without realizing it, because they are trying to get laid, not get in a real relationship.

    Sex to me is not that important, and what is MUCH more important to me is the relationship between me and my partner, which is based around our personalities. I am absolutely not going to do lie about who I am, as it would attract people who don't like me. What I will do is be myself, all day, every day. I get to know people, I make friendships, and if I find someone I consider compatible I'll pursue a sexual relationship with them, but it's based on personality, not sexual attraction. Why is this? Again, I don't care enough about sex to sacrifice my dignity and lie to people. But, there's another, more important reason. You don't establish a good relationship on lies.

    Whenever two people establish a relationship lying to each other, and then later in the relationship (Especially after marriage) their true selves comes out, the relationship is damaged, often permanently. In case you're wondering, these are all lying:

    Consciously Lying to your spouse
    Omitting things about yourself because you think they might hurt the relationship
    Subconsciously changing yourself into someone that doesn't enjoy life as much to make your spouse more happy (Good example of this is the story about the couple who each sold their hair to buy the other a comb, both sacrificed things they didn't need to and in the end neither sacrifice led to anything positive in their relationship, but the sacrifices hurt each other individually)

    People change who they are in a relationship, to 'make the relationship healthier.' What you are doing is poisoning it. While yes, in the short-term, the relationship will last longer, but really what you're doing is permanently damaging your relationship at a personal/emotional level to get more sex. At the stage where you have been hiding things about yourself long-term, you have one of two options- Stop lying to your partner and watch the relationship most likely collapse, or change yourself permanently. Tell me, are either of those signs of a healthy relationship? No.

    Bottom line- Lying about who you are, manipulating people, and just the stupid, bullshit relationship games in general lead to BAD relationships, that WILL NOT last long-term. If you just want sex, make that clear, fuckbuddy relationships are fine, perfectly natural and almost accepted in this day and age. However, if you want a meaningful, long-term partner, you CAN NOT lie about who you are.

    I don't lie for sex, I don't lie period. I'm who I am, all the time. I want my spouse to love me for the same reasons I love myself, and I want a spouse with the same outlook. Will this happen soon? No. But when it does, I'll have a much better shot at a meaningful relationship, based entirely on compatible personalities, and a very, very strong base to build a long-term relationship around. Problems can and should be worked out. Until that day, I'm fine being single, and I don't really care what other people have to say about it, because dating just to date, or dating just for sex is a waste of time.

    Don't try to be in a relationship, it happens if it happens, be happy with yourself first. You may have to be that way for a very long period of time, but that's all the better, because you can never know for sure whether or not something is going to work out, and if you can always fall back on yourself it's the best position to be in. And when you DO get in a relationship, be selective for fucks sake. You deserve someone who is right for you.



    They say relationships are all about Honesty and Communication. They are right. This post is just explaining where the roots of honesty and deception come from.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2007
  2. Kalypso

    Kalypso New Member

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    There are a few things I believe you should do before you ever start seriously pursuing a relationship, if you're in one and don't meet these conditions you probably need to spend some time to meet them:

    1) Know and appreciate yourself. You need a social structure outside your spouse for countless reasons, you need ambition in your life, and in many ways you just need things to do that don't involve them. For many, many reasons in life. When it comes right down to it, if your life is hollow and you fill that hole with a relationship, the relationship tends to end up sour. The only relationships I see in these situations that work are when two people have pretty much accepted that they suck, and that they won't do any better than each other. You don't suck, you're awesome, and you should never bow to this logic. Almost most importantly, you need to be happy single. Seeking relationships as a method of not being single is... very bad. Being single does not mean you're pathetic or a loser, and if you become happy in your state of being single you're a much, MUCH better person for it. Trust me on this. There are going to be periods, probably lengthy periods of being single in your life, so you need to be able to handle it.

    Also note in this section, you NEED TO KNOW WHETHER YOU WANT A SERIOUS RELATIONSHIP OR YOU JUST WANT SEX. There is a MASSIVE difference.

    2) Know what you want in a partner. I know exactly what I want, and I know it when I see it. When I say know what you want, I'm mostly referring to personality and disposition. We all know what we want physically, because you just have to look at them and immediately you're on the same page with your desire. It's a great deal different when it comes to personality and disposition though, because people want relationships to work, and you'll twist and bend everything about your perception of someone you want to be with to make them seem better. Honesty is more healthy than ignorance.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2007
  3. Kalypso

    Kalypso New Member

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    Well, there ya go IamtheBeast, is this what ya wanted? Or did I go off on the wrong tangent, I'm pretty tired to be fair, I'll check in tomorrow.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2007
  4. 04JETTA

    04JETTA OT Supporter

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    i agree with all that thanks for the advice
     
  5. FloppyCock

    FloppyCock New Member

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    I like your post. Most people don't get that manipulating your girlfriend isn't the way to have a good relationship, and they attribute it to "playing the game" or some garbage like that.

    Games and tests are for one night stands. If you bring that shit into a relationship, get ready for a rough ride.
     
  6. demosnat

    demosnat New Member

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    I enjoyed this.
     
  7. Yail Bloor

    Yail Bloor OT Supporter

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    :rolleyes:

    What the fuck are you babbling about?

    Nothing I post is directed at fucking and chucking. Occasionally someone will ask for advice in that regard, and I'll put in my $0.02.

    I'm not a PUA, nor do I have any desire to be.
     
  8. Yail Bloor

    Yail Bloor OT Supporter

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    Great post btw, except for when you referenced me :)

    I agree completely, except for the not caring about sex part. I believe you are lying to yourself about that one.

    I've gone long periods without sex. Just because I have that ability doesn't mean I'm not interested in sex. You have a sex drive and you want sex, its a part of being a human being. You have sexual thoughts. Don't confuse your ability to go without with you "not caring about sex."

    Thanks for your post, I've already learned a lot from it.

    Not that long ago, I was this guy:

    But because I didn't respect my freedom (and by extension, my happiness), I have taken actions that are consistent with the lying and manipulating you speak of.

    Time to get back to basics. Thank you. Your post is exactly what I needed to read right now.
     
  9. Yail Bloor

    Yail Bloor OT Supporter

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    and to complete the triple-post, I will address the subject of game-playing and manipulation:

    I think its great from a philosophical stand-point if you are against the idea of "playing games" or using "tactics" solely to increase her interest in you.

    However, this will only work if you are going to avoid dating women who don't use tactics or play games themselves.

    My experience and the experience of others has shown me that nearly every female plays games and uses tactics in their dealing with others. Women learn to do this at a very young age and it is so ingrained in them, that I honestly believe they aren't even aware of it for the most part.

    My advice is aimed towards men who have chosen to date women who use tactics. Did I advise them to date these women? No.

    What I'm trying to do is help my fellow man get what he wants out of the relationship. Because you can damn sure bet that she's doing her best to get what SHE wants out of the relationship.

    If we follow your framework here and refuse to play games and refuse to date women who play games, then obviously we side-step the issue entirely.

    The problem with that is, for most men this is the path to a life without sex. But our sex drive is very powerful and we want and desire sex, and on the flip-side, many men base their sense of self-worth on how they relate to women.

    So while I think your advice is very good, I feel that very few men will take it. But I've directly advised men on what to do to get what they want (sex) in their relationships and it has worked.

    I don't think its wrong to seek sex. But I do think its wrong to lie and manipulate in order to make it happen.

    Based on how women conduct themselves, I have adopted the attitude that they deserve to be treated poorly if that is what they respond to. I now realize that this is inconsistent with who I am as a person, and my core beliefs and principles. I can't sacrifice who I am solely because that is what women respond to.

    That's the fucked up thing, so many women respond so favorably to being treated poorly. Why is this? I honestly have no idea.
     
  10. Kalypso

    Kalypso New Member

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    Did you think I insulted you or something Yail? (*edit*- well, you probably should, in a way I did rofl. I changed it though, that's 3 am typing for you) I think nothing poorly of you, most of your posts are completely spot on, and worded in a way that helps normal people understand other normal people in a way that's kind of eerie, being that it's an interwebs forum. I've even learned some stuff from your posts, and I have a great deal of experience observing people and being in/around relationships. What you say is fine, but some of it borders on manipulation, or understanding manipulation. You don't necessarily tell people to do it, or how to do it, but definitely how to understand it. Which is good, great for most people, I have no problem with it, but some of it can border on manipulating. I didn't mean anything by it xD


    Yes, that is fucked up, but I'm not going to act that way now, and if I do I'll be expected to act that way for the rest of the relationship. Just like you say in your posts, you have to keep doing what got it going in the first place right? And if I'm treating them like shit in any way I wouldn't normally, I'd have to keep doing that, and I don't want to. See what I'm getting at? I'd rather wade through 19 women who don't respond to the way I act and focus on the one that does, rather than change the way I act to attract the other 19.

    Who knows why women respond so well to poor treatment.
    I care, but my desire to not be a douchebag overcomes my desire to get laid. And as you know, being nice doesn't commonly get you laid, I'm for the most part fine with that. I have so much shit to do in life atm (Job, trying to get a job with more hours, school, working towards a career in writing, friends, etc) I don't even really have time for a relationship. I'm cool without sex, seriously.
    Most people, not just most women, but with men I can pretty easily put their shit to a stop, same with women I'm friends with, the problem comes when sexual tension is added to the mix, and I don't go after women playing games with me. Shit pisses me off and I don't put up with it. Especially the games where they try and make you feel like shit to get what they want, more than one instance of that is almost grounds for me dumping a chick, even if I like her a lot. I HATE that shit.


    edit- Wow, yeah that wording referencing you was bad, sorry it was like 3 am. I changed it, this seem more appropriate? I think I meant that 'If you want to date just for sex and need some advice to get it, Yails posts give good insight into how to do this, whether or not he intended it' instead of 'Yail will teach you how to get laid!' like it came across.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2007

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