GUN Just finished the paperwork for my trust, need advice on cans

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by Peter O'Hanraha-hanrahan, Mar 7, 2006.

  1. Peter O'Hanraha-hanrahan

    Peter O'Hanraha-hanrahan OT Supporter

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    I'm heading home over spring break to find a local class III dealer and get the paperwork going on a can for my P22 and M4gery, any suggestions? A few people have told me the AAC ones for both are the best, and others have said the gemtech one for the P22 is better :dunno:
    :run:
     
  2. 2L Bunny

    2L Bunny "It's only a Rabbit"

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    From the research I did on .22 cans, the Gemtech Outback II and the AAC Pilot are both excellent cans and rated similar. I was going to go Gemtech, as they're in Idaho, closer, and I found a stocking dealer in my area.
     
  3. Peter O'Hanraha-hanrahan

    Peter O'Hanraha-hanrahan OT Supporter

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    :coold: did you end up getting one?
     
  4. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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    Fuck. I just typed up a REALLY long post about cans, which I can't duplicate at this moment. And OT fucked it up. So, placeholder for a long can post. Big pictures, too.
     
  5. 2L Bunny

    2L Bunny "It's only a Rabbit"

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    I never did, decided to save the money as I have to fly to Houston this summer for a wedding. And now that my gf's moving out bills are going to get high for a while. Hopefully in the next year tho. I really want a can and a P22.
     
  6. Stealth Fries

    Stealth Fries Put a mink coat in your butt

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    :bowdown:Bring on the huge pictures.
     
  7. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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    Okay, here goes:

    I'm going to push the AAC cans, because they truly are better than anything else available. Prices are about par with the rest of the market.

    For .22 pistols, you have two options, the Pilot and the Prodigy.

    The Pilot is a little booger, weighing in at 3.5 oz., measuring just over 5" long. It has a reduction of 41 dB. Attaches over normal threads. Shown below on a Sig Mosquito.

    [​IMG]


    Next is the Prodigy. It is the same can as the Pilot, but for one thing: it's a quick-attach can. The threads are interrupted, so you can slide the can almost all the way on, and just tighten it about a full turn and it's tight. This costs a little more, and most people don't need it. Otherwise, it's a cool feature. Prodigy on a P22.

    [​IMG]


    On to the 5.56 cans. AAC makes a variety of 5.56 cans, depending on what you want out of your suppressor. I'll run through each of them quickly, then give a summary guide on which meets what needs.

    First up is the M4-2000. This is the workhorse of the 5.56 cans. It's been around the longest, and is one of the most popular cans AAC makes. It's 7" long, weighs 19 oz., and has a reduction of 34 dB. It attaches onto a proprietary flash hider that allows quick attaching and detaching, and adds only 5.9" to the overall length of the rifle. Three turns and it's on, and staying on. The flash hider is made by Yankee Hills, and is a Phantom with the AAC coarse threads and knurling behind it. The knurling is what keeps the can from loosening, as it retains a round spring detent. Able to be loosened by hand, impossible to shoot loose. The flash hider installs onto normal 1/2 x 28 threads, which are on all threaded AR barrels, and is RockSet in place. No heat required to remove it, and it doesn't ruin the barrel threads. M4-2000 on a SAW.

    [​IMG]


    Next up is the SCAR-SD. So named because it is one of two cans in the running for the suppressor contract for the SCAR-L rifle. So far, Surefire is still a little behind with their entry. The SCAR-SD is a compact version of the M4-2000. It's roughly 6" long, but adds only 3.9" to the OAL of the rifle. This keeps the really light 17 oz. in on your hands better, instead of out past the muzzle so far, allowing better balance of the rifle. The reduction on this can is 27 dB, which actually exceeds the military's requirements for the project. In fact, this can exceeds all their requirements for the SCAR project. Installs in the same manner as the M4-2000. SCAR-SD on a Colt Commando-length rifle, and then on an HK G36KE1

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Next up is the Omni. The Omni is very similar to the M4-2000 in its specs, but very different in exterior design. The Omni attaches over any USGI A1 or A2 flash hider. It indexes off the wrench flats, so you have repeatable zero, and it's a one-piece design so you can't lose any pieces. It weighs 19 oz., is 6.9" long, adds 4.9" to the OAL of the rifle, and has a reduction of 32 dB, a little less than the M4-2000. Here it is on a Colt shorty of some sort. It takes about 5 seconds to install once you've done it a couple times.

    [​IMG]


    And lastly, we have the S2R. This can is entirely different than anything anyone makes. It's a partial reflex design, so it extends back over the barrel a little bit. Even though it's around 7" long, it adds only about 4" to the OAL of the rifle. This is awesome. I can't remember the weight, but it's going to drop some ounces anyways with some new lightening cuts similar to the M4-2000. The reduction should be on par with the M4-2000 as well. The REAL cool feature of this can, however, is that it has adjustible point of impact. You install the flash hider, zero your rifle, then put the can on. There are 5 indexing points, so you install the can using each indexing point (they're marked around the end of the can, so you can see them), and see which one matches up with your zero. In this manner, you have repeatable zero with and without the can, and don't have to change your dope when you put the can on. The flash hider is a partial sleeve that extends back over the barrel, and has a coarse, multi-start thread with 5 starting positions (hence the 5 indexing points). It's actually quicker to install than the M4-2000. Picture of the flash hider (in .308, since it's on an SR-25, but it's the same), then of the can on an M4. Notice how far back over the 14.5" M4 barrel the can extends. This is huge in keeping weight to the rear, instead of past the muzzle.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Oh, and for good measure, here's the titanium version of the SCAR-SD. It's not in production yet, and it was at SHOT just to gauge interest. It weighs 9 oz. That's a featherweight. It's on an HK 416.

    [​IMG]


    Okay, so now that we've run through the 5.56 cans, which one would work best for you? Depends on what you want out of it.

    Small and light. You want the SCAR-SD. It has less reduction, but it's still hearing safe. I've fired it on semi and full inside a concrete-walled indoor range without ears, and it's louder than most AR cans, but still hearing safe. It's not as fun as quieter cans, but there is NO ringing in the ears. The other cans, being larger and heavier, will have better reduction. This one keeps the weight down, allowing better balance of the rifle. That's the big advantage.

    Accurate. For a precision AR, I'd recommend the S2R, due to its ability to fine-tune the POI. It installs quickly, and doesn't change your zero, which is ideal for a precision rifle, whether you're shooting for fun or taking out pest animals on your ranch. It's a partial reflex can, which keeps the balance pretty good. To be quite honest, though, most AAC cans have a really good POI change, meaning, very little. The M4-2000 has about a 1 MOA shift on any rifle, and it's in a different direction for each rifle. The SCAR-SD actually has less than an MOA shift in military testing, and averages about 1/3 MOA shift out to 900 yards. They took two identical SCAR rifles, zeroed them at 900 yards, then put the cans on, shot, and noted the 1/3 MOA shift. Then they swapped the cans on the rifles, and noted that the POI shift was in the same direction for each rifle, so the can is very consistent in its POI shift from rifle to rifle. I'd still go with the S2R for a distance/precision rifle. You don't need the small/light aspect of the SCAR-SD so much in that case.

    Rifle-ready. If you have several A2-flash-hider-equipped rifles, and want to be able to put a can on all of them without buying new AAC FH's, the Omni is your can. That's the big advantage over the M4-2000. Now, the downside is this: it takes two hands to install, compared to the one-handed M4-2000. And, when you take the M4-2000 off, you have a kickass flash SUPPRESSOR underneath, as opposed to an A2 flash HIDER, which is NOT kickass. You would have to buy additional AAC mounts for other rifles, and they are usually close to $100 each. No word on if that price will drop anytime soon.

    For everything else, the M4-2000 is your can. If you don't need it to be particularly small and light, and aren't shooting a precision rifle, and want excellent reduction in volume, the M4-2000 is the one. I've got more time behind this can than all the others combined, including pistol cans. It's a killer can, and makes shooting a blast, semi or auto.


    Now, for me, my main goal in getting a can would be home defense. My rifle is my home defense blaster. An AR is deafening indoors. If I have to use it, I don't want to go deaf, and neither does my family. Eliminating the flash is great for low-light situations as well. For me, the SCAR-SD would serve my purposes just fine, since it meets all my requirements, and stays small and close to the muzzle, which is advantageous indoors. I'm building an SBR, and it will augment that, if I get around to getting a can. The other advantage to cans in general, and I'm sure you're aware of this, is the recreational aspect. I shoot a lot, and with my friends. My best friend now works for AAC, and owns a ballzillion of their cans (4, to be exact, but he's now on AAC's SOT, and doesn't have to pay a transfer tax because he just puts them in AAC's name, so he'll probably get a whole lot more cans soon). Another of my friends is getting an M4-2000. If I got one, we could be the only ones at the range, and be able to shoot without ears, and still carry on a conversation. Not to mention that a suppressor makes the rifle more controllable due to recoil reduction and increased stability. Auto work becomes nearly effortless with a can.

    If you have any questions, ask here, especially dumb ones. If they're really GOOD questions, and they're hard ones, I'll refer you to Cara at AAC. Just don't call her up and ask stupid stuff. They deal with that all day, and would rather be putting shit together to send out to people who have already paid for cans than answering questions that a simple internet search would solve.
     
  8. Floyd91

    Floyd91 Active Member

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    I've got the p22... Working on the can. I'll be filing at the end of this month:x: I'm thinking it's going to be a first freedom arms made in portland.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2006
  9. Furner

    Furner New Member

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  10. Peter O'Hanraha-hanrahan

    Peter O'Hanraha-hanrahan OT Supporter

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    :bowdown: thanks for all the suggestions, ill probably end up getting the pilot and the M4-2000, maybe an evolution-9 too :)
     
  11. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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    My best friend has an M4-2000, an EVO-9, a Pilot, and a QD version of the Cyclone, of which only 8 were made. The EVO-9 is great.

    We've found that shooting a G17 with the EVO is pretty easy once you get used to it. At first, the weight wants to accentuate any errors you make, making it easy to drop shots low, or overcompensate upward. Once you get used to it, though, it's not hard to make the same groups with and without the can. We started off with elevated night sights, but found that they were unnecessary, and went back to regular Mepro's. Looking through the regular Mepro's, you're looking at the back of the can, which does obscure the target a little bit. There are two ways to overcome this: the first is pointshooting, which takes a lot of practice. This is the method my buddy uses almost exclusively with the EVO on. I, however, do it differently. You learn what the target looks like around the can, so the edges of the target are still visible. Get proper sight alignment, and then put the front sight where you know the center of the target is. It works for me, and like I said, same groups with and without the can. The targets we usually use are the ~6" outer ring, ultimately coming in to a 1" orange dot.

    The EVO-9 is a little longer and heavier than it would be, simply because of the ASAP system (it's a recoil booster) that allows it to work with Browning-type tilt barrels, ensuring reliability with any semiauto pistol. It's unavoidable. However, the EVO-9 is about the best 9mm can you can get on the market.
     
  12. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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    I met Robert Silvers, who runs silencertests.com. Quiet dude, but knows a lot about a lot of shit. Gemtech doesn't like him, because he has proved over and over that their cans pretty much suck. That's the real reason they don't put dB numbers on their website, because they're not impressive.
     
  13. Peter O'Hanraha-hanrahan

    Peter O'Hanraha-hanrahan OT Supporter

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    Will the EVO-9 be a big pain on a G19 with the additional weight?
     
  14. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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    No. My buddy is actually trading his G17 to Eric Rice of ADCO, if Eric hasn't gotten one by the time my buddy gets back from Australia. He's got an extra G19 that he'll get a Barsto barrel for, and use that. AAC can sell you a Barsto barrel, or you can get whatever you like.

    G19 with an EVO-9. Note the elevated Trijicons:

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Furner

    Furner New Member

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    interesting
     

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