Jeep Crew: Wrangler Vs Patriot v.iwantanewcar

Discussion in 'OT Driven' started by SOLIDAge, Mar 3, 2008.

  1. SOLIDAge

    SOLIDAge D'ya Know what I mean?

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    So i want to trade in my '06 Fusion for a Jeep.

    I live in NE so the 4x4 is a huge plus b/c of the winter time. I'm also used to driving my old Tahoe, and would like some steel around me...THis is the first winter where it's been pretty bad in New England, and I slid off the road into the show bank ONCE going around 20mph, and slide a good 20 feet into the back of an Explorer in a parking lot...not the best first real winter with my car.

    I'm currently commuting 120miles round trip from work, all highway, but am looking to move closer (cut the trip down to 20 miles)
    I know the Patriot gets 24mpg, my fusion gets 22, and i read the Wranglers get around 19.

    I also read the 2007-2008 Wranglers handle a lot better on the highways...but am not sure.

    My Best friend has a 98' Wrangler and seeing it daily makes me want one MOREEE (i wanted one when i was shopping for the fusion) I'd love to have it when i go camping during the summer (usually go quite a bit) and could occasionally go (slight) off-roading, and mudding w/ him


    Some stats...
    i'm 25, make around 39K and live at home.
    I currently owe $16k on my fusion. and Kelly is $10K for it (mainly b/c of the milage on it)

    Am I out of my mind for wanting either of these cars? What'd suite me best?
     
  2. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    $6k in the hole? Save up some money until you're not upside down... Unless you NEED a car now, it's not a good time.
     
  3. IslanderOffRoad

    IslanderOffRoad Do you even lift kit? OT Supporter

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    you suck at cars apparently if you're that far upside down.

    keep the fusion.
     
  4. popsnbeer

    popsnbeer New Member

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    .
     
  5. SOLIDAge

    SOLIDAge D'ya Know what I mean?

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    Or i have no idea about them :dunno:

    either way i test drove a used one that caught my eye today, and I fell in love with it. After working out the numbers they said i'd be around $400 a month...which is $50 more then i pay now.
     
  6. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    at what term??? My buddy got suckered in on a deal trying to trade his mitsu outlander (bad car to buy, the resale plummits like a brick thrown in a lake) on a mazda3... Payments were what he wanted, but after talking to me I pointed out he was going to be paying 3 YEARS longer than what he wanted... Thankfully he didn't buy the car.
     
  7. critter783

    critter783 OT Supporter

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    .

    Keep what you have. Being upside down on a car when you're that young is going to put a dent in your finances that you'll regret later.
     
  8. popsnbeer

    popsnbeer New Member

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    lol at looking only at payments for justification of affording a vehicle. Terms? Interest? Principle? All things you want to consider before determining if the vehicle is affordable.
     
  9. SOLIDAge

    SOLIDAge D'ya Know what I mean?

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    well the interest would be around 6% I believe. We didn't discuss that, but I have a co-signer and dont' have terrible credit, so that should be even lower if It can be. The loan would be for 5 years, and the break down would be as follows.

    $17,950 for the Jeep
    $14,000 owed on left on current fusion (in OP i said 16K i think was owed, i was wrong)
    $8,000 trade in (this number HAS to go up for me to take this deal, especially since KBB is over $10k for this car)

    ~$400 i'd have a Jeep.
     
  10. IslanderOffRoad

    IslanderOffRoad Do you even lift kit? OT Supporter

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    :rofl: If you think a dealer gives a shit about KBB you really know nothing
     
  11. popsnbeer

    popsnbeer New Member

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    why :rofl: ??? Every time I go to a dealer I get KBB on my trade in vehicle (good condition of course, not excellent).

    Oh....and I don't get screwed on the price of the vehicle because of it either. Good deals both ways. If you settle for anything less than KBB you lost!
     
  12. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    I think his point is that KBB is fairly arbitrary. If KBB said your vehicle was worth $1 you'd be pissed... Likewise, just because KBB says it's worth $11ty doesn't mean that it is. The dealer cares about only two things -- how much could they pay someone else to get the same vehicle (auction price) and can they get you to buy one of their cars.

    KBB doesn't actually buy your car, so the fact they made an offer price on it is merely a "recommendation". If the dealer is seeing the same vehicle at auction for a few grand less then that's all you're gonna get -- assuming that they actually give you a good deal on the new one. If they charge more for the new one then they make it look like you get more for the old one. And if you disagree with me, then you're just lying to yourself.
     
  13. popsnbeer

    popsnbeer New Member

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    thanks for the memo on how the dealer comes up with their price. KBB try's to take much of this into account and therefore gives you this 'arbitrary' dollar amount.

    I doubt that KBB comes up with these numbers all by themselves. Of course I understand that there are vehicles that sell for very cheap at the dealer's auctions, however simply ":rofl:"ing at their estimated $$ value does not help the situation any.

    If consumers were determined to receive blue book value for their vehicle then dealers would give it, however many people give up and settle for payments @ 72 months instead of 60 or 84 instead of 72.

    All I am trying to say is that as long as your asking price is reasonable then there will be a dealer who can work with you (partly b/c of people like you who don't think you can get that price) and b/c they already sold 30 cars that month and have about 50k in underrated blue book values in their pockets. They can afford to give someone a break at the end of the month to boost their numbers for corporate.

    just my two cents (not starting an e-thug battle)!

    pretty much I agree with exactly what you said, except for the final statement.

    If I was not getting a good deal on a new car (I never tell the dealer that I have a trade in until we have a final price), then of course the dealer would inflate my trade in value. However...

    I have always been able to buy vehicles under blue book trade in, and sell them at or over blue book trade in. :dunno: maybe I'm lucky. (hell that was a lot of words and most likely doesn't even make sense!)
     
  14. IslanderOffRoad

    IslanderOffRoad Do you even lift kit? OT Supporter

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    fuck I need to move to Az if dealers are that easy there. The line out here is "if KBB says your car is worth that, sell it to them." They use black book/market value.
     
  15. popsnbeer

    popsnbeer New Member

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    Id tell them to fuck off and leave the dealership, and find one that would do the deal.

    I hate assholes who think that our only choice is to buy the vehicle from them. It's all how you approach the situation. If they are controlling the conversation and the sale then you will get screwed. If you make it plain and clear what you want then the dealer will either say yes or no.

    The problem is that people go to the dealership to buy a car and want that new car so bad they get talked into putting an extra $2k down or whatever so they can reach the payments they were shooting for.

    I tell the dealership that they need to from the $2k or whatever so we can make a deal. If they don't do it or give me a line like "go sell it to KBB" I will leave the dealership without a hitch. Many times they run after you or call you the next day to make the deal.

    It's all in how you approach the situation. Don't be a desperate buyer because you will be screwed. Show them that you could do with or without the car!
     
  16. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    You can think whatever the fuck you want, dude. I sold cars to help pay for college. Worked at three different dealerships -- one foreign and two domestic. I do not know everything there is to know about car sales/purchasing but I know more than the average joe.

    YOU need to be careful. You sound like one of those noobs that read one too many issues of "Consumer Reports" and think that you can pull one over on a multi-billion dollar industry filled with some pretty savy and money-hungry people.

    Yes you can get a good deal on a car, but if you think you're actually getting top-dollar for trade every time you're getting bottom-dollar for their car, then you're just ignorant. Once in a while, sure, it happens. But you're not getting it every time.

    Truth of the matter is, once you think you're at bottom-dollar, offer $500 less for theirs and "kick the trade". They'll bite -- because they don't have to deal with your trade.
     
  17. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    Yep. You've definitely read one to many issues of consumer reports :rofl:. You're one of those "fuck it I'll leave" people. :greddy: I've left dealerships before, but you sound like you do it for the drama.

    If you have EVER controlled the conversation at a dealership then you were either very mistaken, or you were dealing with a very new sales person. The best way to get a good price on a car (without just writing a check and saying "take it or leave it" -- and then getting left without a car the majority of the time) is to work the process.

    True. Sometimes that extra $2k is to get the deal bought by a bank, tho. Also people always think their trade is worth way more than it is. Selling privately is almost always a better way to get more money for it.

    They're calling you because they gave YOU time to cool down. If you don't understand the economics of the "back end" then that explains a lot of your position and statements here.

    And being the prick customer just means they're gonna stick you that much more. You may think you got a good deal, but I imagine you could do better if you approached it better.
     
  18. IslanderOffRoad

    IslanderOffRoad Do you even lift kit? OT Supporter

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    :rofl:

    I didn't get near KBB for my last car, but I don't feel like I got screwed either. I walked out because they wouldn't do my deal, and they called me back 2 days later to do it.
     
  19. popsnbeer

    popsnbeer New Member

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    Agreed. Whatever you thought your car was worth. As long as you got the deal you wanted then that's all that matters. Having them call 2 days later did work to your advantage though.
     
  20. popsnbeer

    popsnbeer New Member

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    I never read consumer reports for the car buying techniques, but I do understand car sales and how the process works. Some car salesmen are just assholes who don't car about the customer and I walk out on them (regardless of price). I understand that not everyone can get the great deals I speak of. If everyone did, then dealerships would change the way they conducted business (similar to Saturn or Autonation).

    Personally I am just not fond of the car sales process and the asshole way to approach the situation. I try to bypass all of the "(name) agrees to sign and drive for $xx" when I specifically told them how much I wanted to pay in the first place.

    I tell the dealership what I can afford/want to afford and ask if they can do it. Many times the dealership starts their sales lingo up and I leave. I personally just don't want to deal with that crap.

    If I have to deal with a 'crappy' salesperson (aka new) to get the deal I want, then many times I will find the person to get me the deal I want.

    It's simple though. You make it sound as if I "need" to buy the car! Being a car salesman in college might have given you some experience and a perspective that the dealership taught you, however I just approach the situation differently than most people.

    I have seen dealership's happily screw people out of an extra $2k b/c the person wanted the vehicle so bad. Personally, if the customer wanted the car so bad to pay an extra $xx, then that's their perogitive.

    Honestly, I do not walk into the dealership witha chip on my shoulder expecting them to grovel at my feet. Of course the dealer is going to tell me to fuck off. There is negotiation involved. I see what you are saying, and there are some good points. I just will not succumb to the asshole "top" car salesman, and be screwed out of my $$.

    I am the guy who trys to get the good deal both ways (price and trade), and I will go to dealership after dealership on different weekends until I find the price that satisfies me.

    It's no secret and most people know that. This is one reason the car salesman profession is one of the lowest regarded positions.

    All personal preference I suppose. Your points are taken into consideration and I will calm down before walking into the next dealership.
     
  21. popsnbeer

    popsnbeer New Member

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    and I'm done with this b/c there is no winning either way.
     
  22. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    every time you post it is more obvious you have no idea what you're talking about :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
     
  23. IslanderOffRoad

    IslanderOffRoad Do you even lift kit? OT Supporter

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    They're lucky the called and woke me up that morning, otherwise I was going to Toyota to put a deposit in on a Scion Tc set up with the options I wanted.
     
  24. Read more...

    Read more... SPQR

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    Spend $600 on snow tires instead.
     
  25. aim2kill

    aim2kill New Member

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    well, i dont know about your loan, and judging by the thread, i dont want to get involved.

    I DO however own a great 02' wrangler sport 4.0L stick shift and i love it. i drove it from indiana to san diego and back, through the mountains of CO and deserts of the south west. no its not a caddy, but i always wanted one and its one of those cars that are fun to just go out and drive in. i am riding on 33" goodyear MTR's and it has a surprising ride, my only complaint is sometimes a low speeds it can bounce hard (i prefer stiff suspension anyways)

    on the trip to san diego, i was getting around 17-20MPG running between 75-90mph, so highway mileage is pretty respectable for the vehicle, it can be loud depending on your top (i have both, hard and soft)

    HOWEVER: if you do very much city driving, this will destroy your fuel budget, im stationed in gulfport ms, and im used to open road driving in indiana, i only get between 12-16 in town, but im an aggressive driver (my mom keeps the vic on deployments and gets almost 18city) so its all up to your personal tastes -it is a great reliable vic and its something i get a thrill out of just walking to go to work, and i like that feeling
     

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