I've never had success with a girl who wasn't intially attracted to me first

Discussion in 'Vaginarium' started by Falconer, Jul 30, 2007.

  1. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    I just realized this.

    Every girl I've had any kind of success with, from LTR to just making out or whatever, was initially attracted to me before I even did anything. I was able to maintain and increase attraction in these cases before I had even heard of PUA/MM/seduction/whatever.

    Every girl I have opened, or every girl I have talked to who was not initially attracted to me, I have been unable to build any sort of attraction in whatsoever. Even tho I am starting to have a basic grasp of "attraction-building fundamentals," I am still apparently entirely unable to use them. Remember that I am in my new mindset now so I'm going to place the fault on me in that I'm still doing something wrong (confidence/congruency/bodylanguage/etc) rather than base it on my old model (that long ass post from a few weeks ago) in which I basically believe that it is not possible to build attraction and that attraction is based on subconscious interpretation of physical characteristics that are, for all intents and purposes, not things that you can change (ie. genetic level variances). But that's my old, defeatist way of thinking, so fuck that negative shit, right?

    It has also been my experience that, in the rare instance that a chick is attracted to me, it's nearly impossible to fuck it up without doing something really stupid (knock on wood). But again, that was my old model, and I'm sure I'll manage to fuck it up in the future... actually, I'm hoping I do, because that would help disprove my old model.

    My Old Model (based on my 26 years of life experience)
    - Attraction is based on almost entirely on subconscious responses to physical appearance at the level of genetic variation such that they are typically things you cannot change.
    Therefore:
    - If a chick is not attracted to you from the first instant she sees you, you have 0 chance with her because "building attraction" is not possible. You do not meet the physical requirements (not necessarily related to good looks, but to genetic variations she subconsciously responds to) to trigger attraction and there is nothing you can do change this
    - If a chick is attracted to you from the first instant she sees you, it is nearly impossible to fuck it up without doing something really, really dumb.

    My New Model (PUA/MM/seduction model that I am dying to believe is actually the correct model)
    - It is possible to build attraction in anyone through the use of PUA techniques.
    Therefore:
    - I am a huge chode and cannot manage to do this; the problem lies with me and my shitty application of established techniques.


    Understand that 100% of my experiences fit my old model and I'm having a very hard time placing them into my "new model" paradigm. I feel like I can explain them through the new model but it's at the micro level, but my old model explains them at the macro level.
     
  2. Kreigore

    Kreigore New Member

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    I tend to agree with both models, they're both relevant in some form.

    In your "old model," you say that they must be attracted to you and if they aren't you have zero chance of succeeding. I tend to disagree, which is essentially your theory behind your "new model."

    You can't have a negative attitude. One thing I will note, that in every relationship, you must build attraction/interest in one form or another.

    Sure, you can be a great looking guy, but if you're a royal ass clown no woman would go for you, but a girl possibly would. You have to have that element or spark - a personality that will let you speak and bond with someone.

    If you're a decent-looking dude and you're just standing around looking like a jackass, you're not going to get anyone. Go out and have fun - show your personality, be fun!

    In relation to your "old model," my first long-term relationship was based upon the fact I thought she was "average" in looks, but she was an awesome person (for the most part). I grew to love her for who she was and that made her beautiful. I wouldn't necessarily say it was love at first sight, though.

    Right now, being single, I see that women are generally attracted to me, likely due to my personality. I don't care what happens. I do whatever I want, when I want (for the most part and within reason). Women I had no idea that were interested in me started coming up to me or I approached them when I felt I was ready. It all depends on the situation to me.

    In all honesty, if you're attacted to someone, go for it. If she likes you or finds you interesting enough, she may come to you, but if she even hints that she's interested - go for it.

    Don't be a chump.
     
  3. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    My old model is not really about being good looking or ugly. It's just certain traits that manifest themselves physically that women are attracted to. That explains why some hot chicks are with ugly guys who aren't rich.

    My old model deals with women's attraction toward men.

    I would like to get to that point. Either a) I never notice IOIs or b) only a ridiculously small percentage of the female population is attracted to me (thus explaining my lack of success with many women). It's obvious how my old model would explain this. My new model explains this as me not doing the right things to generate attraction.

    People don't like my old model because it puts their success or failure in something over which they have no control.
     
  4. Kreigore

    Kreigore New Member

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    I figured you would point out your old model only refers to women's attraction towards men, but I guess I wasn't clear. I think it can be applied to both.

    For instance, my ex-girlfriend said that she didn't think I was a total hunk initially, but that I was "cute" and I was really easy to get along with and talk to. Your "new model" would probably come into play here, but she did have some initial attraction.

    The interesting thing to note is, I had a "I could care less" attitude when we first started dating. I guess it paid off (granted, I'm single now). The simple fact is - I didn't mind if I was single or not. I was having fun and I could have cared less.

    I tend to think initial attraction plays a large part, but it boils down to how you interact with others. You need to have both, but you may be able to pick up some slack if you have a good personality.

    For instance, recently I was seeing an older woman (6 years my senior) and she was the smartest, kindest woman I'd ever "dated." The problem? I didn't find her attractive on a physical level.

    By the book, she would have made a great girlfriend/wife/whatever, but I didn't feel that connection I had with others.

    I'd be interested to here what some women out there think. Is it the same way with women? Do you need to have initial attraction or can someone "pick you up" with strictly their personality?
     
  5. the ground folds

    the ground folds rest your trigger on my finger

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    no time to reply now, but in for later.
     
  6. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    I have an awesome personality, it just doesn't seem to be compatible with a majority of people :rofl:

    I had a similiar situation. A girl who would've been the perfect GF/wife but I wasn't attracted to her enough physically.

    I'd be interested in hearing the disparity between what girls say and how Yail translates it :rofl:

    Before it gets derailed anymore, let's keep this thread focused more on how I'm such a huge chode and suck at pickup and less on my brilliant social models (but we can do that in another thread is you want... fuck, I was -->this<-- close to majoring in Psychology solely for the purpose of writing my thesis on this very topic (my old model). Believe me, I would love to talk about it, just not in this thread).
     
  7. Midgetized

    Midgetized Don't mess with Douche Cat

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    I did not have the initial attraction with most of my bfs. I got to know them as friends first and then ended up liking them as more after I got to know them.

    It would be very hard to "pick me up" just by personality. It would have to be a situation where we were talking as friends and not a pick up situation. I don't really like dealing with guys who are trying to pick me up anyway so a guy would have to be pretty good looking or just make me laugh a ton within a few minutes of talking to me to have any success.

    I prefer bfs that I am not initally attracted to anyway because most of the guys that I would think are hot at first glance would not make good bfs.
     
  8. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    .

    This is a topic in and of itself. My mind is about to explode with things I want to write here, but I'm not because I don't want to hijack my own thread.
     
  9. lauren

    lauren Active Member

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    i was gonna respond, but thought why bother, i'll just be told i'm wrong. :rofl::rofl:
     
  10. Ferrari430

    Ferrari430 New Member

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    Thanks Falconer for posting this..Was insightful for me. If i am to drop the idea that i too had (attraction can not be generated, she's either interested or she isn't) then what is the true solution to generating interest? Do you just let the attraction build once the person gets to know you? I ask this because i'm not too big on PUA stuff but rather being yourself and being fun to be around.
     
  11. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    According to my old theory, the solution is to take the precaution of being born with favorable genetics or have the luck of meeting an attractive girl who you happen to be her type.

    According to my old theory, it's either there or it's not. You can increase it if it's there, but not if it's not. According to PUA, there are specific techniques you can use to generate attraction.
     
  12. Midgetized

    Midgetized Don't mess with Douche Cat

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    Keep in mind though that chicks vary quite widely in what they find good looking in a guy.

    Write it anyway or make a new thread :dunno: If nothing else PM it to me cause I'm curious :o
     
  13. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    I'll do it when I get home from work/the gym tonight.
     
  14. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    That is definitely true.
     
  15. huntz0r

    huntz0r New Member

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    What you are describing in your old model as "attraction" would be more accurately called "MAJOR attraction."

    If there is no initial attraction - in other words, if she finds you repellent to begin with - then you have no chance. But that is not the same thing as the difference between her approaching you or being the first to show obvious, overt interest. That is what she does if she is MAJORLY attracted to you.

    Although I usually dislike bringing lexicon into these types of things rather than just discussing concepts, let me refer to Doc Love here because it's a lot easier. Attraction, or level of interest, is not binary. Instead, think of her interest on a scale from zero to 100%, and all you really need is 51% or more. 51% is delicate, fleeting interest that wouldn't even show up on your radar. It's also easy to screw up; all you have to do is drop 2% in her eyes, and you are done forever.

    What you are describing in your first post is more like 80% interest level right off the bat. Yes, if you somehow land there at the very start, without doing anything at all, of course it is dead easy to keep her at 80%. You didn't have to do anything to get her there in the first place. But the girl with 55-60% interest level would never approach you or show interest first. So you are writing her off as "no chance" even though you certainly would have a chance if you did the right things.

    It should be obvious that it's much, much easier to find a girl with 55% interest in you than one with 80%. But you have to approach her. She's not going to approach you, because she has 55% interest in lots of guys. It's nothing special to her, even though it's enough for you to work with... and build and build over time till it breaks past 90% and she's crazy for you. ;)





    ...Then there is the other side of the PUA thing which increases your attractiveness by improving your attitude, appearance, and social behavior, thus giving you a chance with some women who were not attracted to you at all before and making you more attractive to the ones who were. You're a smart guy, so I'm sure you can see where this principle fits in with everything above.
     
  16. antihero

    antihero OT Supporter

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    ---dont have time to finish this up, ill edit when i do.

    edit: this doesnt even make sense the way it is.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2007
  17. Kozzy McKoz

    Kozzy McKoz OT Supporter

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    reading all this shit made my head explode
     
  18. huntz0r

    huntz0r New Member

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    Made sense to me :dunno:
     
  19. Durka Durka

    Durka Durka Guest

    i find the more i care about whether or not women are attracted to me, the more of a tool i feel like.
     
  20. NCS

    NCS Active Member

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    ...sort of. I know exactly what you're saying, but you're missing a point.

    Let's forget about social situations, parties, gatherings, and any other coincidence in which you are introduced to a female and she will assume you're "safe" because of common friends, in the same class, or so on.

    We can look at this from many viewpoints but the bottom line is the same...

    If a girl has initial attraction to you and you don't know what you're doing, it is very possible to mess it up. Remember, this is a completely cold approach, so I'm talking about the cashier at starbucks, for ex. If you're not socially savvy enough, you will screw it up (example: trying too hard)

    Now, lets take the cold approach to the extreme: the first time she sees you is when you open your mouth. Example: shoulder tap some girl at the club and start talking. She is now either becoming attracted or not depinding on everything you are presenting.

    We can also look at it this way: learning all this stuff makes you more confident, thus more attractive, and therefore you will have more initial attraction.

    If you don't have attraction early on, you have screwed up somewhere. Also, lets not forget compatibility. IMO , trying to be able to get "every girl" is total bullshit. You want certain types, and by being yourself you will attract those types, and should only judge your success/failure on those interactions, not the randoms you're practicing on.
     
  21. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    That was a helpful post.
     
  22. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    I never got to read it anyway.
     
  23. Honest Bob

    Honest Bob New Member

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    I'm in the same boat, but there are very interesting points in this thread.
     

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