GUN itt: a bunch of noob questions; also .22 vs .17

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by jehan60188, Jun 19, 2009.

  1. jehan60188

    jehan60188 New Member

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    so, I almost bought my first rifle- a marlin bolt action, with a thumb hole (i want to say the 917vt)

    but, as I was filling out the forms out, I found out it didn't use .22 lr, it used .17 hmr; from what i've heard, that's a superior round (flatter trajectory, higher velocity), however, it's more than twice the cost (per round), and that means I'll shoot less (maybe)

    but, it probably means I'll shoot /better/ since accuracy shooting isn't about throwing as much lead as possible down the range

    BUT it'll have more recoil (10 times as much?), and I'll probably break/bruise my eye socket on the first round

    bottom line- what's a better round to start off with? what round should I begin with that will provide the right mix of elements (fun, challenge, value, a gun that "grows" with my ability (that is, something where for a while the limits on range/accuracy are due to my skill, and not the gun's craftsmanship), etc)

    i guess with either one, I'd start at the 25 (50?) yd range, but for sure I'd start out with a scope (because i think they're neat), and in the standing position? (working to knealing, laying down, then bench)
    although, i guess the first thing i would do is sight in the scope? there's no break in period with rimfire rifles, right?
    can I achieve 1 minute of angle accuracy with <$450 invested in a rifle + scope + mounting equipment?
     
  2. Razardica

    Razardica Active Member

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    Get a Ruger 10/22.

    If you want a bolt action get a CZ 452 American.

    Top it with a Mueller APV in some 1" Burris Signature Zee rings, medium height.

    .22LR is what you want.

    .17HMR is for killing small animals. Not for punching paper.

    It does not have ten times the recoil, you will not hurt your face. You don't put your eye directly on the scope anyway.

    Go buy a .22LR rifle, like maybe 5,000 rounds of .22LR and then come back.

    By then you'll have an understanding of what works and what doesn't.
     
  3. Razardica

    Razardica Active Member

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    If you buy a 10/22 - the first mods you should do;

    Tuffer Buffer 10/22 Buffer
    Volquartsen hammer & sear
     
  4. mds2004

    mds2004 OT Supporter

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    i think you should get a .22
     
  5. mstad

    mstad New Member

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    Token 10/22 post.
     
  6. Just get the 10/22.

    And :rofl: at .17hmr having 10x the recoil of .22lr
     
  7. apman0000

    apman0000 OT Supporter

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    for cheap target shooting go with the .22lr
     
  8. phrozenlikwid

    phrozenlikwid New Member

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    I don't think I've ever heard someone use 17HMR and "recoil" in the same sentence before...

    If it's your only short range blaster, get a .22.
     
  9. yar1182

    yar1182 New Member

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    Kidd trigger yo
     
  10. hsmith

    hsmith OT Supporter

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    10 * 0 = 0
     
  11. jehan60188

    jehan60188 New Member

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    thanks for the input everyone; the smallest round I've shot is 9mm, which while it doesn't have uncontrollable recoil, it does have /some/ recoil

    what does "autoloading" mean? i like bolt action (mostly because it's neat, but also) because it's not semi-automatic, which (iirc) sacrifices some amount of accuracy, right?
    i want a thumbhole because the guy at bass pro shop (who sounded very knowledgeable, and had pictures of the turkeys/deer/etc that he hunted put up) said it's a more natural position for my wrist/arm/hand to be in. should i get that? or is it such that by the time i'm ready to move on to a larger caliber (probably .308?) i will not yet fully appreciate the thumbhole, and should just wait until then to get a stock with a thumbhole?


    edit:
    just googled autoloading- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_rifle
     
  12. apman0000

    apman0000 OT Supporter

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    i think you're putting to much thought into this thumbhole
     
  13. 4thgenceli

    4thgenceli Active Member

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    a 5 year old can shoot a .17hmr standing up one handled blindfolded.

    A .17hmr has next to no recoil.
     
  14. TATEROTE

    TATEROTE OT Supporter

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    obvious troll is obvious
     
  15. jehan60188

    jehan60188 New Member

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    or, you know, i just don't know about something that i've never encountered before. god forbid i try to learn about something new

    go play in traffic
     
  16. 1979TA

    1979TA OT Supporter

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    A person asking the kind of questions he is asking doesn't need to do any mods until they have at LEAST a few thousand rounds down the range
     
  17. xpinchx

    xpinchx hes got a nice cock, on the thin side but its stil

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    .17hmr is a pretty expensive round if you're going to be just plinking, like others have said it's mainly for varmints. Anyway I'll jump on the 10/22 boat as well, IMO it's an ideal first gun and everyone should have one. I wouldn't get a bolt rifle as your first gun, because frankly they're not as fun as a semi-automatic. The gun will be around $200, get a mueller APV online for like $110, and buy at least 1000 rounds of decent ammo (not the bulk packs of loose bullets like remington gold bullet, federal red box, etc. Look for federal chamption, CCI's, etc.)

    Don't worry if your stock is thumbhole or not, it doesn't really matter and the stock is one of the easiest things to replace anyway. There are 100's of stocks for the 10/22 that have a thumbhole if that's what you really want. Also you mentioned break-in, the only thing you have to worry about is avoiding subsonic ammo for the first thousand rounds or so. Shoot regular velocity or high-velocity ammo until things break in.

    After you get your fundamentals down then you can start worrying about modifying it. The first thing I bought was a bull barrel and new stock to fit it in and the improvement in accuracy was huge. For the trigger you can go cheap and just buy the VQ hammer/sear/springs or you can go all out and by a KIDD trigger housing. It's up to you. Check out www.rimfirecentral.com for any info you might want to know about modifying it.

    Good luck, welcome to gun crew. :wavey:
     
  18. jehan60188

    jehan60188 New Member

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    thanks for the tips, and the welcome (though, i've been around for a while, and already have a Glock 26, and Remington 870)
     
  19. Laurel

    Laurel New Member

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    I'd say get the 10/22. They're perfectly fine in accuracy. I second getting the buffer and the volquartsen hammer package as your first mods. You can get a cheap air rifle scope and stick it on there without worrying about the gun destroying it.

    While semi-auto can have a negative effect on accuracy, you're going to have a hell of a time getting to the point in skill where the gun being semi-auto is a hindrance. As you improve and "max out" in terms of groups, consider trying different ammo, then look into a new barrel (bull barrel) which will likely require getting a different stock.

    I shot this 5 shot group (my 3rd time doing benchrest) with my 10/22 at 50 yards with the volquartsen hammer, buffer, a $40 scope and a real nice barrel. You could easily do this with more practice and a cheaper barrel (Mine's a loaner from MG, or else I'd have gotten something less expensive).
    [​IMG]
     
  20. LancerV

    LancerV Something Happened OT Supporter

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    I dont even think a 17hmr could bruise your eye if your burried your eye socket in the scope
     
  21. phrozenlikwid

    phrozenlikwid New Member

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    The action method of operation is a moot point as far as intrinsic accuracy is concerned in regard to what you are trying to do. You aren't shooting BR, and a stock gun will likely out-shoot you in all honesty.

    As for the thumbhole.... It's a stock. Some people like them, some don't. While some stocks are known for their superior ergonomics (like say.... McMillan) it's all a personal preference thing.
     
  22. jehan60188

    jehan60188 New Member

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    thanks again everyone; i think i'll pick up a 10/22, and try out different kinds of ammo (non-subsonic for the first thousand rounds) to see which one i like!
     
  23. jehan60188

    jehan60188 New Member

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    in case anyone's wondering, I picked up a 10/22, and an entry level Nikon scope (3-9 x 40, $150 at Academy)
    unfortunately, they were out of ammo, so I'll be making some phone calls today to see if I can find any
    is there any brand that's better for zeroing a scope? any brand I should avoid? iirc, I should avoid subsonic for the first 1000 rounds, right?
     
  24. How are you going to zero, and what kind of accuracy are you looking for in the end? I've never heard of not using subsonic ammo during breakin, the only thing I can think of is because the parts might have a little less play and subsonics might not have enough recoil to operate things initially. That's purely a guess though. Really, if you're zeroing at something like 50 yards any quality ammo will give you a reasonable degree of accuracy. That said, especially in .22s, they'll shoot different ammo with very different results. If you zero your scope with ammo X and then switch to ammo Y you're going to have to re-zero it.
     
  25. jehan60188

    jehan60188 New Member

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    k, thanks. i did some reading, and i think i'll take a few shots while seated, with sandbags or something at 25, and then adjust as necessary, then readjust at 50/100 yds
     

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