MIL is todays military too soft?

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by Asleep, Jul 8, 2007.

  1. Asleep

    Asleep New Member

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    i already know what to expect from some of you guys for answers. for you others, do you feel its too soft now?
    i joined in 94 and it was somewhat tough. we stayed away from nco's higher than e6, we completely went out of our way if a csm came by. if the 1sgt knew our name - that was a bad thing...
    NOW, after a 5 year break in service, i come back in (dec 05) and PVTS(!!!) talk back to nco's, push the limits constantly, and i even heard 2 e4's tell an e6 that they wouldnt do pushups because it was degrading...
    wtf?

    i thought it was a joke when my buddy, an e7, told me that i wasnt going to like it because todays "kindler gentler army" let the new kids get away with all kinds of shit. i just dont understand it. where did the discipline go?


    waiting for the 10%'ers to show up and give their less than .02.
     
  2. Ranger-AO

    Ranger-AO I'm here for the Taliban party. Moderator

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    probably depends on the branch/unit/mos
     
  3. brackac

    brackac Fuck all of this. OT Supporter

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    Every generation says they had it harder. I loved it when the guys from the 80's told me I had it made. Called us the Pepsi generation. Then you learn that they were drinking at lunch, smoking pot was common in the early 80's, and the running joke was if you didn't have a DUI you weren't trying to get promoted. I don't think todays enlisted are any more pampered than I was. The more rank I get, the more I see, and the more I notice. So I think your perception changes and the kids stay the same.
     
  4. Asleep

    Asleep New Member

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    i can definitely agree with you.
    i tell some of my guys when theyre done getting smoked by my plt sgt for being late to work that if they had soldiers under them, they would see things differently too.
     
  5. Insdav3

    Insdav3 Guest

    part of it is being politically correct in the information age
     
  6. dura

    dura Guest

    Yeah, it has changed. The new folks coming in aren't exactly retarded. I had better options prior to joining, but my choice was to serve. I expect to perform to my best until I'm evaluated as a capable leader, then lead by example. I've found that being on time and doing my job has saved me from any kind of trouble.

    I don't like seeing NCOs standing back and talking about how it "used to be". It's your responsibility to instill pride in the rank on your chest. Why am I seeing NCOs marching PT formations out to a parking lot after a 40 second double-time for an early dismissal, shamming out of their own work, and doing childish things? The junior enlisted are a direct reflection of your leadership, and their leadership will be based off that.

    If you want this kind of stuff to stop, stop being so friendly and kind. I feel like some NCOs are about to come up and give me a fucking hug. Don't ask me where I'm from. Don't ask me about my life. I don't want to be comfortable around you. I don't mean to snap or anything, but I hear this shit every fucking day.
     
  7. Ranger-AO

    Ranger-AO I'm here for the Taliban party. Moderator

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    leadersbook.jpg
     
  8. Jyokker

    Jyokker The trouser snake is very aggressive. It will corn

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    Excuses... the downfall of responsibility.
     
  9. JSin

    JSin New Member

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    Amen.
     
  10. OkiDiver

    OkiDiver New Member

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    Every generation was softer than the last in the military, what matters isn't how much NCOs act like dicks or how much people get yelled at. As long as the warfighting and support from the rear maintain the same type of quality.

    The only people I ever hear bitching about the Marine Corps going soft are self-obsessed NCOs who think yelling is the only way to accomplish anything and crusty ass Staff-NCOs who tend to disagree with every new change. Whereas the people seeing the bigger picture like field/general grade officers keep saying the same thing, we're still producing top notch Marines for the battlefield.

    May just be me but I'm more prone to trust the word of someone who has a real view of the big picture over some disgruntled SSgt whos never been in charge of anything bigger than a platoon or two. :dunno:
     
  11. jjski78

    jjski78 New Member

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    Has the military gone soft?? Sure, in a way. The problem I have, in the AF, is that when someone doesn't do their job, there's not a whole lot you can do about it. In one instance, I actually got reprimanded for "counseling" an airman who pretty much refused to do his job, and when he did do his job, he would intentionally fuck something up in hopes that we wouldn't ask him to do anything anymore. I think a big problem in the AF at least, because I don't know about the other branches, is that people join for "college" or "travel" or some other bullshit. They don't seem to give two shits about the fact that their slacking affects everyone in the unit adversely. And this whole, "I don't wanna deploy" bullshit has got to stop. I think there should be paperwork written just for saying it.
     
  12. TRN

    TRN Well-Known Member

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    Too soft? Maybe a little, but the majority of the problems come from
    Politics > *
     
  13. Ranger-AO

    Ranger-AO I'm here for the Taliban party. Moderator

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    I've been active duty air force and air force reserve. I've also been army reserve and now army national guard. In my opinion, Army leadership/management style is MUCH superior to Air Force. They each have unique missions and issues, but the Army tends to focus on a strong leadership and a rock-solid expectation that orders will be obeyed.
     
  14. jjski78

    jjski78 New Member

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    I think that boils down to the one major flaw the Air Force has. You see, from my understanding, the Army has REGULATIONS. They say, in black and white, what you can and cannot do, and how to do things. The Air Force, on the other hand, has INSTRUCTIONS, which are "open for interpretation". This leads to no two bases doing anything alike because one bases Commander "interprets" the AFI differently than another's. I absolutely cannot stand that! Why on earth, do we do something one way at Pope, yet do it totally differently at Little Rock?? It makes no sense. If things were standardized, it would make life a lot easier for people when they PCS to another duty station.

    /rant
     
  15. RoblesGT

    RoblesGT [Track Days: 19 ][Crashes: 1] [SuMo Days: 1 ][Cras OT Supporter

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    Hazing is not tolerated by MCO. That being said ... since I'm a linestepper/rider ... i walk the line finely ... :wiggle:

    But yes, its been getting softer and softer as time goes by. Every previous generation has had it harder than the next. I'm sure they used to hump uphill bothways with NO boots back in 1775.
     
  16. Asleep

    Asleep New Member

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    they had burlap sacks...
     
  17. Accord

    Accord New Member

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    :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
     
  18. MOS95B

    MOS95B New Member

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    I can't say it's too soft. But, lack of discipline was why I got out 10 years ago. As a Sergeant, I was never one to use the whole "scream and holler til you get your way" method of leadership. But, when I couldn't punish a buck private for FFI, I decided it was time to take my ball and go home.

    But, I can't say that it's the whole military. Most of it falls on the immediate chain of command. If the CSM, 1SG, Platoon Sergegeant won't back the lowly Team Leader, then the whole system goes to shit...
     
  19. Ranger-AO

    Ranger-AO I'm here for the Taliban party. Moderator

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    .
     
  20. TRN

    TRN Well-Known Member

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    Get a fucking haircut.
     
  21. RoblesGT

    RoblesGT [Track Days: 19 ][Crashes: 1] [SuMo Days: 1 ][Cras OT Supporter

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    more like us :rofl: at you cause you're the one getting hazed, :mamoru:
     
  22. RoblesGT

    RoblesGT [Track Days: 19 ][Crashes: 1] [SuMo Days: 1 ][Cras OT Supporter

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    I agree with that shit completely. Myself, I'm not a screamer, I dont lead by yelling. But when my Sgt undermines my leadership in front of my fucking troops, the whole leadership goes to shit. Even if I was in fact wrong, which I wasnt, dont fucking correct me in front of the damn troops, that shit creates a fucking gap between NCO's.

    But yeah, I joined expecting to be choked up when I fucked up. I got tons of paperwork unfortunately. I'd prefer a good fucking beating or fight over paperwork. :x:
     
  23. PlutoBHG

    PlutoBHG New Member

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    navy is too different from everything for me to say much about this OR the haircut issue (heh) i do agree with the whole different commands doing things differently being crap, there arent many CO's out there...send them all through a class and standardize things...commands would run smoother and there would be a lot less hatred for our CO's then there currently is out there...one captain could have things running like well oiled machine, then the next guy comes and changes everything around and fucks it up and just generally pisses everyone off...and for no reason...

    EDIT: i punctuated and capitalized that whole rant horribly....

    EDIT2: i guess i can say this, i was pretty disappointed with how soft things have become when dealing with lots of females/cry babies and how poorly the opportunity for anyone to deal those issues is... and stuff like bootcamp/wog day were pretty lame as far as that goes too
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2007

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