is there a neurologist in the house?

Discussion in 'Fitness & Nutrition' started by slurpster, Dec 9, 2006.

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  1. slurpster

    slurpster FLESHY FLAP VALVE NAVIGATOR OT Supporter

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    basically in a nut shell i'd like to get my heart rate up to benefit from a cardio workout. i'm a c-5 quad asia b, 22 years old, 4 years post. currently 6'4" 280lbs with a body fat % of 34. i've been working with my therapists to try and maxamize my therapy time. i do a intense wieght lifting routine and 40 mins on a ergometer/arm bike 3 times a week. i'm also on a strict diet and taking several supplements before my workouts.
    6 x 1200mg of creatine ethyl esther(3 before,3 after)
    81 mg asprin
    2 x twin labs diet fuel
    "Guarana Seed Extract (22% caffeine) 800 mg
    685 mg Thermogenic Energy Enhancing Complex Citrus Aurantium Fruit Extract (standardized for 19.5 mg synephrine alkaloids), St. John's Wort Extract (aerial parts)(standardized for 0.9 mg lypericin), L-Phenylalanine, Green Tea Leaf Extract (standardized for epigallotechin gallate), Quercetin, Citrus Bioflavonoid Complex (containing naringin), Ginger Root, Cayenne Fruit"

    diet found here
    http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJ...wner=slurpster


    my problem is my heart rate. i cant get it up for nothing. my resting heart rate is 50bpm. my resting heart rate with the supplements is 56bpm. during the arm cycle workout i can get my heart rate up to 100bpm but i start getting dysreflexia and seeing black dots. if i i stay at 75-80 bpm i can go all day on the cycle(1 hour plus). my blood pressure stays at around 110/60, then starts to drop as my heart rate goes up. it's not an energy issue at all, it like my heart cant keep up.

    i understand this is due to my sympathetic nervous system not working. would it be feasible to take a stimulant that affects the sympathetic nervous system? could i take something like maybe ephedrinre to increase my heart rate and blood pressure?


    The whole reason for this is to for me to lose 60lbs over the next 8 months and get in a manual wheelchair. thanks for the help guys
     
  2. cavefish

    cavefish You ain't a crook son, you just a shook one

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    Yeah OT is full of brain surgeons and shit.

    Why don't you try asking your doctor?
     
  3. Ricey McRicerton

    Ricey McRicerton New Member

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    Realistically, that sounds like a better question for your doctor than the guys on here. I don't know if any of us really have any way to even begin to answer your question reasonably. If you're seeing black dots at ~100 bpm heart rate, I'd ask your therapist what they recommend.
     
  4. Marix

    Marix OT Supporter

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    There are a few medical people on here but I'm sure they will all agree with me that they're not going to diagnose you or suggest medicines over the internet. It's horribly unethical. We have no idea of a full history, no clinical examination etc. If I said "yes try ephedrine" and you had a reaction and died, it wouldn't look very good on me, would it?

    This matter would be much better discussed with your doctor. If you dont understand something, ask them questions and if you get no good response, get a 2nd opinion. You shouldn't have to ask on an internet forum, sorry.
     
  5. TZ

    TZ Banned

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    :werd:
     
  6. slurpster

    slurpster FLESHY FLAP VALVE NAVIGATOR OT Supporter

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    doctor visits cost money. i have an appointment on the 13th to get blood work and ask a few questions. the title on my thread was to draw attention.
     
  7. slurpster

    slurpster FLESHY FLAP VALVE NAVIGATOR OT Supporter

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    i'm working with my therapist on this idea. we both think it should work in theory.
     
  8. slurpster

    slurpster FLESHY FLAP VALVE NAVIGATOR OT Supporter

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    its not really a medication, i'm gonna use it to supplement my workout and to maximize my time.

    as far as existing conditions or anything, i dont have any. past conditions are a few pressure sores, nothing major. family history invovles thyroid issues and obesity.

    another thing is i dont take any meds. only pills i take are multi-vitamin and my supps.
     
  9. slurpster

    slurpster FLESHY FLAP VALVE NAVIGATOR OT Supporter

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    i understand you guys are like freaking out over this question. but i figured somebody might have worked or trained with a para or quad before. the kind of therapy i'm doing right now very few people in chairs push it this far. they do the bare essentials and quit. its the same story with my therapists. i'm trying to push myself past your typical chair bound individual.
     
  10. Genghis.Tron

    Genghis.Tron New Member

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    I'm guessing that activities in a pool could be more than accessible for you, suggest it to your therapist/doctor and see see where it can go.
     
  11. slurpster

    slurpster FLESHY FLAP VALVE NAVIGATOR OT Supporter

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    i get evaluated monday for pool therapy. hopefully i get approved.
     
  12. ACURA TL-S

    ACURA TL-S OT Supporter

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    With a c5 lesion, you will have no sympathetic activity to the heart because the sympathetic branches from the cervical ganglia actually come from the thoracic region. That means that your max heart rate is going to be right around 120 even at 0 vagal (parasympathetic) stimulation. The reason you are probably seeing spots is because metabolic activity in your skeletal muscles is decreasing arteriole resistance to such a point that you are actually reducing flow to your head. Where a normal person at that activity level may have a heart rate of 150, you are only hitting 110. Sympathetic stimulants won't do anything appreciable. Stick with activities that keep your heart rate right around 90-100 for your safety. No need to pass out trying to workout.
     
  13. ACURA TL-S

    ACURA TL-S OT Supporter

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    BTW, if it is a must that you lose weight, you might want to look into something like ephedrine or yohimbine for assistance, since all you can really do with your condition is workout for longer, not really harder. Talk to a real doc about that stuff first though.
     
  14. slurpster

    slurpster FLESHY FLAP VALVE NAVIGATOR OT Supporter

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    gotcha, i understand that. i believe i am getting some type of sympathetic system signal. my heart rate does rise but its not getting up there to be effective. my spinal cord suffered a burst fracture at the c5/c6 region resulting in a my cord being 90% severed. I've read that ephedrine effects the sympathetic nervous system, causing an increased amount of epinephrine to be in the system.

    i appreciate your input. everything i'm doing is being monitored and approved by my doctor before beginning them. i'm pretty sure there has to be something i can do to raise my heart rate safely. all rehab these days is extremely traditional. I was one of the first sci patients to use creatine at my center. thanks again
     
  15. slurpster

    slurpster FLESHY FLAP VALVE NAVIGATOR OT Supporter

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    i'm doing ok so far with my wieght loss. down 12lbs so far. btw, i've got alot more strength and movement then you think. thx again
     
  16. Genghis.Tron

    Genghis.Tron New Member

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    Since you're HR is limited, I'd say that trying to boost lipolysis (fat burning) could be a solution. Caffeine and green tea extract can help a little but a ketogenic diet (ie : pushing your body to use fat for fuel instead of sugar) on a short term could lead to something. I don't know if your medical condition permits this though, maybe the higher blood acidity could lead to a problem in your case but I have no idea.
     
  17. slurpster

    slurpster FLESHY FLAP VALVE NAVIGATOR OT Supporter

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    are there any supplements that could increase arteriol resistence?
     
  18. ACURA TL-S

    ACURA TL-S OT Supporter

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    The sinoatrial node in the heart, the natural pacemaker, has an instrinsic rhythm of 120bpm. Therefore if you had no innervation of the heart you would have a heart rate of ~120bpm. However, you still have parasympathetic innervation of the heart from the vagus nerve, which is a cranial nerve that doesn't run in the spinal cord. Therefore, your heart can be slowed just fine, but once it gets to the point that it needs sympathetic innervation to increase, you will (and do) have a problem. You may have slight sympathetic innervation from that 10%, but it is iffy and probably insufficient to say the least. Therefore, your max heart rate is going to be right around 120 and if your body needs more blood than that it is just going to drop your blood pressure like you noted earlier.


    Ephedrine has a whole body sympathetic effect, but it will not have the effect you are looking for in increasing your heart rate during exercise; however, it will cause an increase in your BMR which will increase your weight loss.
     
  19. ACURA TL-S

    ACURA TL-S OT Supporter

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    There are, but not in the way that is necessary. Metabolites of the skeletal muscles are causing the reduction in resistance to those arterioles. The only way that you are going to fix that is to slow down the metabolic rate of those muscles.
     
  20. slurpster

    slurpster FLESHY FLAP VALVE NAVIGATOR OT Supporter

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    yeah. i did a keteogenic diet 2 years ago and lost 40lbs. when i was on this diet i wasnt excercising though. i always felt sluggish.

    right now i'm trying to change my life-style also. trying to eat better is one of my main goals. hopefully i can find a happy medium of foods that give my body what it needs and thats all. then go from there to modify it for building muscle or burning fat.
     
  21. slurpster

    slurpster FLESHY FLAP VALVE NAVIGATOR OT Supporter

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    thanks, i understand now. i'm just trying to figure out what angle i need to bring this up to my doctor.
     
  22. slurpster

    slurpster FLESHY FLAP VALVE NAVIGATOR OT Supporter

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    ok, so thats a no go. i'd rather keep my metabolism up then drop it.
     
  23. ACURA TL-S

    ACURA TL-S OT Supporter

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    I just mean that the only way to fix it is to slow down the exercise. Anytime your body needs more blood than your heart can provide at 120bpm, you are going to get a drop in blood pressure, so you really need to keep your activity level at a point that keeps your heart rate around 100 or so. Obviously if I understand the problem your doctor is going to know what is causing it, so I would just tell him your goals and ask what he recommends to other patients in your situation. It should be common for anyone that has a cervical spinal lesion, so I am sure you aren't the first person that has asked him for advice. However, I am not sure what the common solution is to what is most likely a common problem. Although I will admit that most doctors will probably frown upon using a pill as a solution, but hopefully he will have some good advice.
     
  24. ralyks

    ralyks New Member

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    :bowdown: to acura
     
  25. Professional

    Professional Guest

    holy shit that's why I want to be a doc ACURA :bowdown:
     
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