SRS is she ur gf, have u been dating > 0.5 yrs, is it serious?

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by JohnJohnJohnson, Dec 7, 2007.

  1. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    Oooooh good question. This allows me to write some thoughts I've been having about this. I'm answering you as if you represent the last 1,000 people to ask me that question - so you may be a little put off at how verbose and passionate I am in my response. Just to warn you.

    You can call her my girlfriend if you want, and you can call it serious if you think it fits.

    Not everyone is comfortable with the labels available for relationships in our culture. I, personally, find them horribly limited. Using mainstream terminology to describe social dynamics, let alone relationships, feels, to me, like wearing big ass cooking mitts - and then trying to sew the queen's handkerchief.

    Let me rephrase. Talking about love with the terms available feels, to me, like organizing a stack of paper - with my elbows.

    Awkward. Fumbling. Fail.

    So, I try to escape the little boxes people put me in and what I say instead of picking from a hat of shitty, predefined labels, is that she's my "lover." :dunno:

    People think they know about relationships. But people don't know jack shit about picking up women ... which is what led me to getting into this relationship.

    Let me give you the background there. I'll try to be brief.

    I found out about the seduction community over a year back - and mentioned it in a forum here - and I got 1,000 people saying (a) it's manipulative and fake, so that the women you pick up will like a fake version of you which won't ever lead to Real Love [and the only point of picking up women is Real Love, right? :rolleyes:] (b) the types of women you pick up with that material will be trashy chicks (c) it won't work, it's not real confidence, just be yourself broly old bro.

    Obviously, where I am and what I did while I was practicing pick-up, proved all of that shit wrong. By extension, I've come to the conclusion that people can't POSSIBLY know about loving women when they don't even have the most basic knowledge of attracting them. I mean - even the "naturals"! Guys who are GOOD with women - don't know anything about picking up women. Naturals were saying the same exact shit (see points a. b. and c.) as the nerds. It's like people who don't know how to teach you the language they speak natively because they literally don't know anything about how it works. They can just speak it.

    Now it might be a stretch for you to tie 1. people and the mainstream being retarded about social dynamics, with 2. people and the mainstream being retarded about love. But it makes perfect sense over here.

    Basically, I don't expect this to last forever - but I do FEEL like it will last forever.

    Subtle, but different. My lover and I call it (affectionately) the "illusion of eternity." It's a wonderful illusion. But unlike everyone else, I ALSO don't EXPECT it, per se, to fade, fizzle, sizzle, or burn. In fact I don't expect anything. Logically I know anything could go any way. I'm just emotionally optimistic.

    So now, as for the second question: it doesn't feel "serious" to me. The reason I don't call it serious is because it feels deeply meaningful and intoxicating and beautiful and repeatedly-new - but also FUN. Is that "serious?" Work is serious. Ethics are serious.

    Your call.

    What box do I fit in?? What box, JJJ???? People keep trying to fish for terms - IRL and over in the vaginarium. Maybe if I post this one long thing I can cover everything at once and won't have to repost it.

    Are we "friends with benefits?" That would imply non-romantic feelings.

    Fail.

    Are we "bf-gf in an open relationship?" That would imply a host of implicit obligations to each other.

    Fail.

    I felt love for Emily (as defined by my own internal judgment of my own emotions) after about 3 weeks. Those weeks started with a kiss and ended up with us lounging in my New England country house where we had sex for the first time. I had fallen in love once before and despite the fact that it broke all the "rules," what I was feeling after those three weeks was the same quantity as when it began to be love with the other girl, and of similar quality. At that point in time, moreover, I was fucking USED to breaking all the "rules", because if I had BELIEVED those "rules" - if I had listened to people's doomsaying - I would have been dating some girl based on looks, because I would have thought I didn't have better options.

    "Doomsaying?"

    Yeah. For example I've had a lot of people at this point telling me that the whole intoxication part of love is a phase - that it is infatuation. God, can you imagine the responses I would have gotten from people if I came in here on month #1 and said "I'm in love?"

    But I was. And I am.

    They say it isn't "real." OR, it's real, but it isn't real love. They say this as if they're in my head, or as if they could even tell what "it" is without being in my heart.

    Astounding.

    Well let me say then what it is that I believe. The reason people conventionally say, in all of their conventionalist glory, that it's a phase, is because ... get this ... THEY FELL OUT OF LOVE. It's not like it magically transferred to comfort-love and there's two versions of the same romantic-feeling, and one of them is this sort, and the other is that. Bullshit. There's one chemical that produces what people call "infatuation" love. There's another that produces "comfort" love, they say. But you know the chemical that produces comfort-love? That's the SAME SHIT you get around your MOTHER.

    So what happened?? These conventional people fell out of love and then they stayed together out of HABIT. But - because "relationships take work" (another incredible gem!!!) and because they were "committed" - they managed to remain happy. Despite having fallen out of love. And so, because this subsistence lasts, because this non-spark, comfort "version" of love LASTS, they call that "real."

    *screech*

    Hit the brakes. My qualification for "real" is not based on how long something stays in being. My qualification for "real", when we are talking, specifically, about emotion, is based on HOW I FEEL.

    I think I might stay infatuated with this girl for the rest of my life just to piss all these people off. Seriously. Fuck them.

    Rationally, I KNOW it's doomed, I know it's crash and burn around every corner - shit, I know that spending EVERY WAKING SECON' with Emily, as I've been doing, will cause her to lose interest or cause me to lose interest - I know that it doesn't "count" when it still feels amazing - I know that it doesn't count when it's only 3 weeks, even if you spend more time together during those 3 weeks than most people spend during 3 months - I know all of this.

    And yet: I loved her 3 weeks after kissing her and my interest renews and deepens each passing day and it's been ~8 months and we spent every waking minute together since August and I'm looking at her asleep now and I cannot even begin to express how beautiful I find her.

    Which, btw, is another thing: when I'm in love with a girl, I find her more physically attractive than any other women - including posters and shit. Maybe women are different in this way, but for me, in that sense, love IS about looks. Because it's incredibly deep.
     
  2. Ameter

    Ameter Active Member

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    :dunno: good enough with regards to the original question. I only asked because the way you phrased it made it sound like you might be another one of those poor saps who fall in love with a girl without ever going out with her once.x
     
  3. Ameter

    Ameter Active Member

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    as for your relationship in specific, it sounds to me like you guys ignored social norms and relationship expectations, and very possibly wound up creating a very real relationship which will eventually become the equivalent to the social norm... somewhat of an irony there
     
  4. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    ;)
     
  5. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    Like I was saying, if (s)he feels love ... for four hours ... towards someone (s)he hasn't spoken to ... it's "real" by me.

    Unfortunate? Probably. But real by me
     
  6. Aronomy

    Aronomy Get your COME ON!

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    To me that is such a ridiculous post. You will write a book on trying not to label your relationship so that when it ends you can be like "well, we weren't really together or serious", yeah, protecting your emotions, okay :big grin:.
     
  7. camarocane

    camarocane New Member

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    Is all that worth reading anyway?
     
  8. mrchina

    mrchina Guest

    So, in your own opinion, how does one/should one pick up girls?

    For me, I just be myself because well... I'm comfortable with who I am and my social skills. For others, it's hard to be when you're not comfortable or confident in yourself. That resorts people to using pick up artist techniques... but unless you truly are a pick up artist, you're going to come off as fake and phony. I just feel bad for that group as you can't teach those people anything... it's basically all up to them.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 7, 2007
  9. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    :rolleyes: at protecting my emotions.

    Don't measure the value of a relationship by how much fear of loss each party has. :hsugh: What we are doing is, frankly, much braver than two people who deal with being in love by setting up contractual agreements with each other.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2007
  10. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    if it works for you then don't worry about it
     
  11. Ameter

    Ameter Active Member

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    your definition of serious (as it pertains to a relationship) needs help

    a serious relationship is one where its more than just a fling for fun, it's one where you have complex emotions for eachother and see it lasting into the future
     
  12. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    depends on your reading comprehension :dunno:
     
  13. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    yeah i know the idea ... i just abhore the word choice.

    i'll just stick with "deeply meaningful and feels like it will last until eternity."

    but seriously... measuring the value of a relationship by how much fear of loss each party has. :wtf:
     
  14. mrchina

    mrchina Guest

    I'm not worried about it. I just want to hear what'd you'd say to those people. It's this statement that got me asking...

    "Obviously, where I am and what I did while I was practicing pick-up, proved all of that shit wrong. By extension, I've come to the conclusion that people can't POSSIBLY know about loving women when they don't even have the most basic knowledge of attracting them. I mean - even the "naturals"! Guys who are GOOD with women - don't know anything about picking up women. Naturals were saying the same exact shit (see points a. b. and c.) as the nerds. It's like people who don't know how to teach you the language they speak natively because they literally don't know anything about how it works. They can just speak it."

    I mean, if the guys that are good with women don't know and if those that don't know don't know... then who does know? And how do they do it in your opinion.
     
  15. Ameter

    Ameter Active Member

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    i'd say do like i do and measure the value of a relationship by the value you place on it, but it sounds like you already do :mamoru:
     
  16. ChaCha

    ChaCha Active Member

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    I agree on some points the OP makes

    relationships aren't about labels, they are about enjoying one another.

    I hate it when girls try to pressure me into labeling the relationship. I feel that the relationship comes first then the "label" not the other way around. Calling someone my girlfriend doesn't change the way I feel about them.
     
  17. Ameter

    Ameter Active Member

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    its really just a subverted way of asking what you feel about them
     
  18. ChaCha

    ChaCha Active Member

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    true

    if you're still in HS
     
  19. mrchina

    mrchina Guest

    maybe some want a label because they want others to know so it's more shameful when you go and sleep around... for one.
     
  20. Ameter

    Ameter Active Member

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    most girls never really mature past HS
     
  21. mrchina

    mrchina Guest

    you're hanging out with the wrong girls. I obviously know some immature guys well past college.
     
  22. ChaCha

    ChaCha Active Member

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    excuse me?

    if I am dating someone exclusively I don't go around sleeping with other people.

    And another thing, if a girl that I'm seeing can't trust me without claiming me "hers" then what does that say about the relationship?? a waste of time if you ask me.

    I like to go with the flow and let things happen.
     
  23. ChaCha

    ChaCha Active Member

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    oh and btw

    gawd damn u mongorians! keep breakin' down my shitty wall
     
  24. Ameter

    Ameter Active Member

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    how does the immaturity of many guys have any bearing on whether or not girls mature past HS?
     
  25. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    They know because they study it (which has the reaction of "omgz you can't get good with women by thinking MORE!!!!!" :rolleyes:), and then go out and "field-test" their hypotheses, and find patterns, and so on.

    Like I said, just as a native speaker doesn't have to know jack about how she speaks her tongue in order to speak it...

    The problem is that if you're NOT a native speaker (i.e., if you're a nerd), then unlike real languages, you are NOT going to just magically pick up pick-up by hanging out with people who can already do it.
     

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