I'm having some "inner" issues. I need your advice v.nothing to do with chicks

Discussion in 'Vaginarium' started by Falconer, Dec 18, 2008.

  1. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    There hasn't been a long Falconer topic in a long time :mamoru:


    Alright you guys remember a few years ago when I was basically like "hey, why are fake douche bags so successful with chicks? Why are chicks stupid enough to respond favorably to them? Why are chicks turned on by douche bags instead of intelligent, high quality people?" I was afraid that in order to be successful with women I would have to turn into the kind of douche bag frat boy moron that I hate, which would be being fake and selling myself out.

    Well I'm having a similar issue, except it revolves around business instead of women.

    It stems from this thread, but I will give you a summary here so you don't have to read the whole thing if you don't want to:

    http://forums.offtopic.com/showthread.php?t=4041593


    Basically here's my issue:

    I am in a position where I am going to need to do some internet marketing. My problem with internet marketing (and marketing in general) is that, most of the time, you have a piece of shit product fronted by a brilliant marketing team and it sells millions of dollars. This is readily apparent in the thousands of webpages that I describe in that thread that are referred to as "landing strip pages," or "Full Page Ads" or "Squeeze Pages." I'm sure you've seen them. They're like 400 pixels wide and like 50 pages long. They're the internet equivalent of infomercials. Here are two examples:

    http://tuberake.com/
    http://www.realworldseduction.com/18927.htm

    There are thousands of them, from "how to make $10,000 a day trading Forex with our little known secrets!" to "how to fuck 10 beautiful women a day with our little known secrets!" to "how to make $1000 an hour doing nothing working at home with our little known secrets!"

    Obviously, the products are all crap.

    Now what I'm having issues with is that this selling format is hugely successful (if it wasn't, people wouldn't continue to put up those fucking stupid ass webpages).

    So look at what's happening here:

    Stupid bullshit product + gaudy advertising that any intelligent person can see right through = tons of sales

    [Astute readers will pick up on the analogy at this point and see why I'm having issues with this:

    stupid bullshit product lacking quality or usefulness + gaudy advertising aimed at stupid people = tons of sales

    stupid douche bag lacking actual substance and personality + lame ass douche baggery aimed at gullible pepole = tons of social credit

    Keep reading tho]


    So if I, being a naturally classy and intelligent person, were to do internet marketing, I would want to stay away from this obviously stupid "landing strip" type of page that is basically an insult to anyone who lands on it. I'm not a slick-haired used car salesman.

    But unfortunately, this type of website is so incredibly successful that companies and people choose to use them rather than making decent, credible-looking websites to promote their prodcuts. Of course, keep in mind that their products are bullshit, anyway. There are no Forex secrets that you will learn in a $59.99 eBook that will show you how to make $10k a day. Those websites scream "you are a fucking idiot. Give me your money." And people do.

    So my problem is that I design high quality products (you can read my story about that in the other thread). High quality products don't deserve to be marketed in on a bullshit infomercial webpage.

    But people are stupid.

    I am smart. Before I buy something, I do tons of comparitive research to determine the best product for my needs. Salesmen hate me because I shut them down or catch them making logic errors and they have no response.

    That is my background. So when I make a product, it is high quality. I think my error is assuming that potential customers are going to be intelligent as well and obviously see that whatever I am selling is awesome. But that doesn't happen. Idiots buy from the pretty colored landing strip webpages that tell them "hurry, this deal ends in 24 hours!"

    It's hard to market a high quality product on the internet because there are so many fucking bullshit products out there. For example: Those "ring tone" websites. They make SO MUCH MONEY. Did you know that those websites are aimed at idiots that can't read the small print?? If you buy one of those ringtones, you get charged $9.99 per month to use the ringtone. That's anal rapage without lube. Yet each month hundreds of people buy them. Idiots. All of them.


    So my ultimate issue here is this:

    Am I able to morally accept myself if I engage in shitty marketing to sell low quality products that I know are bullshit?

    Or, do I only sell high quality products that I am actually proud to put my name on, knowing that I will only be selling to an intelligent customer base which makes up 10-20% of the population?


    I always thought that high quality products would sell themselves. That is not true. (high quality products "sell themselves" to the intelligent 10-20% of the population)

    Shit products sell with the help of brilliant marketing (to the stupid 80% of the population).

    I am having trouble accepting this, even though I know it is true.

    I think that even if I had a succesful landing strip page, I would want to kill myself every time I thought about it because it's an insult to anyone who reads it. If I make a ton of money, and someone asks me how, I want to be able to tell them "I ran this awesome business selling these great products" and not "I scammed people by selling bullshit products for $9.99 per month to idiots and not allowing them to cancel."


    Part of me wants to absolutely exploit the fact that 80% of people are stupid and use retarded marketing techniques to take their money. If people are idiots, they deserve to give me their money. IQ Darwinism.

    The other part of me wants to be classy and do work which I am proud of. That way a) I will be proud to show other people my work and b) I'll be able to look back and smile. But I know that it won't be as profitable.


    I feel like I am at a major crossroad in my life.



    [For those of you still following the analogy in your head, it's a bit different with business than with pickup. In pickup, I never really wanted to fuck tons of women; I just wanted to attract a high quality woman to have an LTR with. And even from the beginning I said that less than 5% of women are relationship quality... but in pickup, you don't need to find 1,000,000 girls to be your gf, you just need to find one that is high quality. So I was able to extract what was useful from the pickup community and use that to better myself in order to help me find a gf, without reducing myself to being a gigantic douche bag devoid of substance who fucks tons of chicks who are equally devoid of substance. But in business, you DO need to find 1,000,000 people and sell to them (pickup). So I can't only be targeting the high quality people like I can when I was looking for a gf]
     
  2. Viper

    Viper OT Supporter

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    :rofl:

    I can't believe I read all of that.

    You know, I always say that when people ask a question here, the answer is almost always within their post, they just can't see it. So, what I am going to do is show you your answer:

    How did you handle THAT? What results did you get from that?

    When you answer that question, you'll know what to do.
     
  3. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    So sell to the intelligent minority?

    That's what I've been doing for years.

    I need to make more money.
     
  4. eXyle

    eXyle ׂ

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    seems like your answer is right there.

    so, what end game is more important to you.? high volume sales of a lower quality product that you take no pride in, but will bring in the revenue you seek.? or, would you prefer possible low volume sales of a higher quality product you are proud of, which may or may not bring in the revenue you seek?

    answer that and there you go. however, i would assume that the higher quality product can be sold at a larger margin, so even if the volume is low the revenue might still be high or, at least, satisfactory.
     
  5. Viper

    Viper OT Supporter

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    Here's what struck me:

    Look at it this way.

    Your job as a business person is to do two things:

    1. Make a quality product
    2. Garauntee that product at a great price

    When you accomplish those two things, you've accomplished what you've needed to do. Who gives a fuck how you market it? Seriously, the important portion here is that you make and garauntee a quality product.

    Where you "extract" what was useful from the pickup community, you must also extract what is useful from the marketting community to acheive your objective: to make money selling a quality product.

    So, look at WHY these people are falling for these "subpar" adds, and extract that knowledge to help you sell your product, just as you looked at PUA and extracted the useful stuff so that you could sell a quality Falconer to a girl.
     
  6. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    Because they're idiots. Same reason people buy lemons from used car salesmen. Same reason people order from infomercials at 2am.

    I sold a quality Falconer to a quality girl. And to be honest, I've never had much trouble with quality girls (once I can find one) anyway. A year ago I was a walking dictionary of PUA techniques, yet I used that shit maybe 10% of the time when my gf and I first started dating (mostly just added more C&F stuff, lol I'm awesome), because I'm already so high quality I didn't need bullshit techniques to appear that way.

    Conversely, when I was "practicing" at parties or whatever, I would use a TON of PUA shit on the stupid chicks because they weren't high quality enough to see how awesome I was (read: they weren't on my wavelength). But it wasn't fun, because they were dumb. And half the time I would get blown out anyway because I wasn't congruent with my "PUA act" because I already knew the girls were dumb and I wasn't interested in them and I couldn't fake it good enough to keep their attention anyway. "oh rly... you think Paris Hilton is awesome. Really. Tell me more about that. Wow you're so interesting. I bet you're the bad one and you're the good one. *yawn* What? Yes, I just yawned because you're the most boring girl I've ever talked to."

    Quality girls are an extreme minority. This gets mentioned in every "why can't I find a decent girl?" thread.

    I already have no problem selling to quality (intelligent) customers; it's just there aren't very many of them. If there were, then "landing strip" ads wouldn't be succesful, nor would the shit products being sold on them.

    Hmmm.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2008
  7. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    holy shit I need to stop editing my replies after I post them :mamoru:
     
  8. prototism

    prototism Guest

    Most convoluted analogy EVAR.
     
  9. Viper

    Viper OT Supporter

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    Yeah, but your not going to spend the rest of your life with a customer like a woman, so you really don't have to worry about who you sell to. Just make your product, and then advertise it in a way that gets noticed.
     
  10. ware_ru

    ware_ru I know, I know, I'm amazing

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    you turn everything into a huge fucking momentous decision
     
  11. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    Actually I think it was pretty spot on.
     
  12. XaPU!M

    XaPU!M Active Member

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    I'm confused as to why you can't sell a high quality product in a shady manner? Not even shady, but kind of dumb it down to catch the eye of the general population but keep the product high quality enough that no one will think they got ripped off?
     
  13. ware_ru

    ware_ru I know, I know, I'm amazing

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    because as Falconer he has to make mountains of molehills
     
  14. BlackIce72

    BlackIce72 New Member

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    :rofl: seriously
     
  15. ww_Crimson

    ww_Crimson New Member

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    .

    Do what you need to do.
     
  16. JordanClarkson

    JordanClarkson OT Supporter

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    Those landing strip type of website work because it makes you want to keep reading and reading. People trust in this kind of format rather than the flashy ones that are too well done. They have this fantasy of finding that diamond in the rough. It's like going back to when the web first started out, with webpages looking rather childish and mediocre. In fact many of these sites are 10-15 years old and are able to spread through word of mouth in a time when the only way to get your listing at the top of search engines is to BUY your ranking. I see these sites as more of a hobby than a serious business endeavor though. They're basically selling snake oil (colloidal silver, how to for adwords, magnets for health) and appeal to the bored housewives who end up making these same types of sites. But if you have something small, like for example I am going to be marketing a plain ol' list in text document format, then maybe it's not such a bad idea.
     
  17. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    I guess.

    I close my browser when I see them because I automatically lump whatever the product is in with all the other fucking bullshit that advertises that way.

    Seems most people don't do this, however.

    I'm going to write a book called "how to sell to stupid people."
     
  18. antihero

    antihero OT Supporter

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    I couldnt disagree with this more. doing not exactly what you want in business is and making a lot of money is not at all the same as not being who you want and getting a lot of tail.


    its business man. the point it to make money. if you aren't hurting anyone, then do what works.
     
  19. Viper

    Viper OT Supporter

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    You really ought to read the rest of the thread before replying.
     
  20. :eek5:

    :eek5: i OT Supporter

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    Holy shit, get off of your high horse.

    You want to make more money, and you claim you know how? Then fucking do the damn thing.
     
  21. ware_ru

    ware_ru I know, I know, I'm amazing

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    NO MAN! If I ever legitimately try, I might fail and not have any excuses.
     
  22. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    I heard you got unbanned so I took you off my IL list.

    This is the first post I've read since I unblocked you...

    You're back on my IL.
     

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