SRS I'm a drunk

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by basacis, Oct 21, 2007.

  1. basacis

    basacis New Member

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    I drink and it controls me. I'm drunk now and I'm fine with it. I hate it and I want it to stop. This is a plea for help. I know I should go to meetings or something but I hate how that idea makes me feel.
     
  2. i killed tupac

    i killed tupac New Member

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    have you ever been to one? Furthermore, if you havent, how do you even know if any better or worse than the current misery you live in? There's no sign in sheet, there's no guest book, there's no leader. You can walk right back out the door you came in at any time, no one will bat an eyelash.
     
  3. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    I can relate...when I knew something had to change in my life, I was both relieved and terrified. Alcohol was my BEST FRIEND in life. It made me really sad when I knew I couldn't drink anymore....but at the same time, I knew I couldn't keep doing what I had been doing for soooo long.

    The nice thing about AA....there are many people that feel the exact same way as you do....or they have at some point in their life.
     
  4. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    :werd:
    You don't even have to use your real name if you don't want to.

    Just get to a meeting.
     
  5. basacis

    basacis New Member

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    Please keep nudging me in a brutal forcefull way. I want this to stop, I have been drunk every night for a long time.
     
  6. i killed tupac

    i killed tupac New Member

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    you can always have back exactly what you have now
     
  7. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    Are you sick and tired of being sick and tired??
     
  8. SmugDruggler

    SmugDruggler New Member

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    Oh come on! That's so trite!

    I went to group meetings for a different thing and the one thing you gotta understand is - it's a hell of a good first step. The shit you go through can be DISSIPATED in this kinda setting. There are people who have already been where you are and they can give you some good tips to get through it.

    My main concern was that group would turn into a bunch of co-enablement or on the other end, some kind of fascist front...but it's pretty brutally real. These people will essentially be able to read your f--ing mind sometimes and get right to the point where things need to be.

    Personally, I favor strong leadership in groups because it really keeps things on a forward-moving track. The key is finding someone who is not a big talker or saviour. A smart-nononsense- compassionate mix is best.

    Anyway, getting people who UNDERSTAND who you can talk to is so damn invaluable here. Please get yer butt up and try it.
     
  9. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    Fixed

    Yes you may have heard it before....yes you may not like the saying. But you know...it totally fit when I was coming into AA.

    Not only that, it's a legitimate question.

    As for the rest, he'll figure it out when he gets there. Your experience in AA isn't unique....just like mine isn't.
     
  10. SmugDruggler

    SmugDruggler New Member

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    I didn't mean to be that disdainful. Sorry Coottie.
     
  11. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    No worries man.
     
  12. basacis

    basacis New Member

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    Thanks for all the replies. I still have yet to make much progress. I spent one night sober this week which is better than usual. I had high expectations for tonight but I ended up with a 12 pack.

    As trite as it may be yes I am sick and tired of being sick and tired.
     
  13. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    Then perhaps you should go to an AA meeting. It worked for me and it's worked for millions of other people.
     
  14. i killed tupac

    i killed tupac New Member

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    and continues to work
     
  15. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    :werd:
     
  16. Salad

    Salad New Member

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    basacis...we should go to a meeting together!
     
  17. undirected

    undirected Guest

    But to be fair, it HASN'T worked for millions of other people. And I don't accept the "it works if you work it" idiom as gospel, it is simply unfair to say that a program will ABSOLUTELY work for someone if they work hard enough at it. True, if you're in the right mind state and you can buy it hook, line, and sinker, you can definitely get a lot out of it. But let's not force AA down his throat when it is not the only viable option. Real psychotherapy that allows you to get to the root of the problem and not just figure out how to control it by using the power of a group or higher power is a much more helpful route to go, in my opinion.

    I don't mean any of this to sound negative. I was sober with AA for a few 24's myself, but they are not the be all end all of methods to get sober.

    Mike
     
  18. Paulie Walnuts

    Paulie Walnuts Im an agent of chaos

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    Man Im sorry. If you ever need someone to talk to please let me know. I can be reached via AIM at PaulieWalnuts447
     
  19. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    Actually it has. AA's been around since the 1930s and yes, there are millions of people that have been helped by AA. I'm not only being fair, I'm being accurate.
    For an alcoholic, not just a heavy drinker, yes AA is one of the few options available and the only one that I know of that has has as wide of success with so many people. Sure there are examples of people that have been able to get away from drinking and stay away based on their own willpower or for whatever reason. IMO tho they weren't alcoholics....at least not like I was.

    And I'm not forcing anything down anyone's throat. I merely made a suggestion.

    Also, I never said AA will absolutely work for everyone. Hell even the AA literature acknowledges this. However, it's the best chance most people have of getting and staying sober long term. Everyone has theories and new fangled pills or programs to try and get people to stay sober. But only AA has had lasting success with a broad range of people across all different socio-economic boundaries.

    AA is quite simply, the best option for anyone having trouble with drinking. However, if they aren't an alcoholic, they can still get good things from AA even if they are able to stay sober on their own. Hell more power to them if they can. We're not out on a membership drive.
    I never said they were....but they are the best option IMO. I'm not about to suggest other methods that don't have the time tested results of AA. Alcoholism is a life and death issue and I take it very seriously. To suggest unproven programs is at the very least irresponsible and quite possibly fatal.

    No, I will not be suggesting other methods because I've talked to and heard others that have tried many of those other methods. When they failed, the people came to AA and found a solution that works.
     
  20. undirected

    undirected Guest

    I think you might have misunderstood what I was saying.

    I was saying that there are at least as many people that have NOT stayed sober using AA/NA/other 12 step programs than there are those who have. This is not a slight against AA in any way.

    Frankly, I think this statement is arrogant, although I'm sure you didn't intend for it to come across that way. To say that people who are able to quit and stay away from alcohol without the help of AA are not real alcoholics is completely unfair and bordering on ignorant.

    There has not been an alcoholic gene discovered, only a marker on a certain gene that has yet to prove anything, conclusively or otherwise. The disease model of addiction is unsupported by the vast majority of scientific and medical bodies in the world, with the only major supporter of the theory being the AMA, who also told us cigarettes were not terribly unhealthy a few decades ago.

    I realize that, but speaking from experience, someone who is a newcomer to the concept of AA needs guidance by example, not by proselytizing. I'm not saying that you WERE, but it can come across that way very easily to someone in the decidedly fragile mind state of questioning whether he or she is an alcoholic.

    And I do agree with the idea that AA is one of the most effective methods of staying sober. I disagree, however, with the idea that it is the absolute BEST method of staying sober for EVERY person in the world. A one-size-fits-all approach to a problem that is really quite singular to the individual simply does not work for everyone. I realize that alcoholism and addiction are purported to be basically the same issue for everyone with the "disease," and most people in an AA or NA meeting will be able to share stories that sound exactly the same but with different names, but that concept completely ignores individual psychology.

    You already know by now that I disagree with the first sentence here, but the rest I completely support. My stint in rehab and the subsequent 8+ months attending mostly AA meetings, working the program, talking daily with my sponsor, doing service work, etc. gave me a new viewpoint on life and allowed me to take a step back. The one thing I cannot take away from AA despite all of its shortcomings is that AAers are by far the finest overall group of people I have ever met.

    I'm beating a dead horse here, but in my OPINION, a person who has a problem with an addiction of any sort should be more interested in finding out the underlying psychological cause for the problem rather than simply trying to stop it and essentially ignore it and pretend as though it doesn't exist.

    Once again, I do not mean to sound as though I am attacking you or your viewpoint on the matter. I have a very cut and dry manner when it comes to a debate of any kind.

    Mike
     
  21. chucklenut

    chucklenut New Member

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    isn't big enough for the both of us
    any updates?
     
  22. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    Will you admit that this is your speculation?? Because to date, I haven't seen any studies listing how many people haven't been helped by AA. I have however, see hundreds of thousands of alcoholics at the world convention. One only has to look at how many meetings there are in any major city and how packed those are. I will concede that not everyone is sober at those meetings but the usually there's a majority in meetings that are sober. Certainly the vast majority of meetings I've been to in my time.

    So really, when you say there are at least as many people that haven't been helped as have....I have to strongly disagree as I have not seen anything to support this claim other than random people making posts in Road To Recovery. No you aren't the first. So IMO, this is just a convenient conclusions that you are holding on to in order to support your dislike of AA but it certainly doesn't seem to be rooted in truth.
    It's not arrogant nor is it unfair or ignorant.

    Look I'm living proof that AA works. That is simply the truth and it's honest when I say I know of NO OTHER program with the success of AA. I don't. I do however, know of many programs and/or pills that seem to come and go like the seasons that claim to help alcoholics. However, none of those solutions seem to last and I have talked to a couple of the people that tried those methods in AA.

    When I said that someone getting and staying sober on their own isn't a real alcoholic is not unfair at all. IMO, that actually as valid of an explanation as any. I'm not saying it in a demeaning manner....it's simply my belief.
    Well here you are quite wrong. The following is an excerpt of an article I link right after the quote:


    Later in the article he says
    http://physiciansnews.com/commentary/298wp.html

    THat article was written by a doctor and it's easy to find other articles that support the disease concept. Articles written by trained medical professionals, not someone espousing contrary theories.
    Guidance by example. Agreed...that's what AA is all about. Just one drunk talking to another drunk about what has worked for them. Many people in AA have been able to stay sober for 30, 40 and 50 consecutive years without picking up another drink....and these are not unique cases. They are quite common in the meetings I attend.

    IMO that's strong evidence to the effectiveness of AA.

    Regarding proselytizing.....I'm not. However, if you've have bad experiences in AA and are still upset by those experiences, it's highly likely that anything I say, especially when I speak with authority about what has worked for me, will sound like proselytizing to you. I can't help that and I'm not about stop sharing my experience, strength and hope with others. I know what's worked for me for 13 consecutive years and I'm happy to share that knowledge with others....especially if it will help them with their own struggles.
    Well at it's most basic level, the steps address the individual. The individual works the steps and it by working the steps, with the help of a sponsor, that one usually finds relief from alcoholism. Working with the sponsor is critical.

    Regarding one size fits all....like I have repeatedly said, millions have been helped and there is ample evidence of this help. However, I do not believe there is ample evidence to support your claims.
    Noone ever said that you have to believe that AAers are the finest group you've ever met. I don't even know where you got that notion? I suspect it's rooted in your disdain for AA.
    Well you act like AA isn't treating the underlying causes and conditions of the disease of alcoholism when nothing could be further from the truth. AA deals with the underlying causes and conditions. However, very often when dealing with these, it appears that one is not dealing with them. Such is the magic of AA. We do things that seemingly have no application to the underlying causes and conditions and low and behold.....we end up directly addressing those underlying causes and conditions. That's why people are able to get and stay sober in AA.
    I haven't felt attacked here at all. In fact, I welcome your questioning. Afterall, AA's principles should not just be blindly accepted.....well while the newcomer is getting off the sauce and getting their life back together, it's often helpful to not question and just DO.....then observe the results afterwards. Afterall, we alcoholics are a hard-headed lot and we seem to be convinced more that we are right than any other group on the planet....so how can some stranger possibly know what is best for me.

    Funny thing is, over and over again newcomers will just do what they are told then observe the results and are quite stunned to see that things can turn out very differently than they had imagined. I can't even tell you how many times in my recovery that this has happened.....where I absolutely, 100% know all the possible outcomes of an action....yet I took the suggested action and was stunned to find there was an alternative I hadn't considered.

    So question the principles but don't let that questioning keep you from taking action. Afterall, the proof comes after the action has been taken. It's quite simply amazing.
     
  23. undirected

    undirected Guest

    It's absolutely my speculation, but given that there is no accurate or conclusive way whatsoever to gauge the number of alcoholics who HAVE been helped, both of us are speculating, wouldn't you say?

    All a matter of perspective.

    Fair enough. Opinions are opinions. We obviously have pretty different ones, and that's fine.

    Fair enough, I will admit that my information was obviously a bit off :ugh:

    I have had more GOOD experiences in AA than bad, please don't get me wrong! I have a lot of love for the program and I have more TRUE friends from the rooms than I ever had when I was doing and selling drugs. I could tell a lot of stories about AAers not practicing what they preach, many of which resulted in causing others to relapse while fully knowing what they were doing. I'll save those for another time, because it in no way represents the whole of AA -- but I am certainly not alone in having those experiences. The bottom line, however, is that AA DOES work if you are able to let it work for you in a beneficial way. If so, more power to you. But there are people who simply cannot find it in their hearts and minds to use a 12-step program, and those people are not any better or worse than folks who are in the rooms.

    Not sure what claims you're talking about here.

    I'm a little confused as I think you might be. I was saying that AAers ARE the finest group of people I've ever met as a whole, not that you are forced to believe that upon joining. No sarcasm there whatsoever -- as I said above I have the numbers of at least 50 people who I could call if I were in an emergency and drive 900 miles from Greensboro to Tampa to help me. That is true friendship.

    Once again, a difference in opinion.

    I agree wholeheartedly. As I said before, we simply have different mindsets and world views, and there is nothing wrong with that if both of us are happy with our lives.

    Absolutely. I have seen the transformation that happens even over a month or two of recovery, and it is truly amazing. My only point is that it is simply NOT for everyone.

    Mike
     
  24. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    I agree that there don't seem to be any scientific studies focusing on either group. However, there are many, many AA groups and more keep being added year after year. We live in a great time in the history of alcoholism because there are so many meetings available. Up until the 30s, they'd just lock our asses up in mental homes and write us off. Now in any major city, there are literally hundreds of groups meeting on a regular basis.

    Add to that the growing numbers of "old timers" those with say 20 or more years of sobriety and I think there's enough ample proof as to the effectiveness of AA. Is it scientific, no but it is empirical evidence.
    :werd:
    lol a bit off....more like completely inaccurate but now we're talking matters of degree. :)
    Cool...I'm glad to hear that. To me it's really sad to hear when people have bad experiences and then simply write AA off because I want to help those people. It's sad that some simply get pissed and walk away. I'm glad you're not in that category.
    Yes unfortunately this does happen. However, it's important to realize that those that are not "practicing what they preach" (I hate to use preach here because of it's overtones. AA is not about preaching....I'm just using the phrase here for convenience) are still sick with the disease of alcoholism and it's a cunning, baffling and powerful disease. I don't hate them for doing this, I do however hate what they are doing.

    The thing is, AA is like any group of people. If you associate with people that don't practice the principles of AA in all their affairs, recovery will be much harder. Now this is not a judgment of those people but of their actions. This is one of the challenges facing all those that are working to help others suffering from alcoholism.
    I think you misunderstood me. I'm not judging anyone that finds that AA isn't for them. In fact, like the big book says, "If anyone is able to do the right about face and stay away from alcohol, our hats are off to him."....or something like that. I agree with that....however, when I'm trying to help another suffering alcoholic, I'm not able to tell them about all the options available because quite honestly, I don't know of any other options than AA. Sure I've heard of pills and other programs out there but I don't have any experience with them.

    I have however, however had a whole shit-ton (that's a lot by the way) of religion, therapy and self-help education in my life and I can assure you that those things, while good, were not able to help me get and stay sober for long periods of time. My experience has been that AA is the only solution because I've tried others and they didn't have nearly the effect on me that AA did.
    Your previous claims in this thread.
    Oh yeah ok...I did misunderstand. Sorry 'bout that.
    :werd:
    Not for everyone...I'm going to assume you mean not for every alcoholic because AA wasn't ment for everyone....just drunks. With that in mind, my experience has been that the people that say that AA is not for them usually fall into one of the following categories:
    A) People that aren't real alcoholics and are really just heavy drinkers
    B) People that still want to drink and they don't want anyone to interfere with that.
    C) People that have had bad experiences in AA, became bitter and just left instead of working with a sponsor on those issues.
    D) People that DON'T want to do the difficult work of the steps and instead would rather just hang out with a different group of people.
    E) Scientists that have never been to AA nor studied it and therefore don't fully appreciate nor understand the complexities of the disease.

    Well that's all I can think of right now.

    Like I've said before, I've worked with many drunks that were injured by other programs that claimed to have a cure for alcoholism and there are many stories about these in the AA literature.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2007

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