If i am taking a univeristy Bach. Degree in IT management..

Discussion in 'OT Technology' started by kenzo, Jul 4, 2006.

  1. kenzo

    kenzo New Member

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    i just finished 1st year. However i have limited knowledge in computers. Should i get cerfications such as A+?
    i am interested in Network and security. However i need the basic knowledge 1st right?
    I do know much about computers, but not sure if it surpasses A+ requirements.
     
  2. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

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    A+ is a good start, if you aren't an independant learner. Because lets be clear about one thing: without technical knowledge, you can NEVER be a good IT manager. EVER. Its a rule.
     
  3. kenzo

    kenzo New Member

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    Just wondering, when u buy those books, how do u know where and when to take the exam?
     
  4. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

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    I don't know. I've never done a cert. I assume its in the book.

    Or... look at the sticky up top. http://certification.comptia.org/a/
     
  5. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    Don't we have a sticky thread regarding certifications?
     
  6. EagerZeroedThick

    EagerZeroedThick New Member

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    IT Manager with no technical knowledge, sounds like you'll fit in great!
     
  7. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

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    Its true. I would like to reiterate that there is no such thing as a competent 'project manager' without technical skills.
     
  8. SLED

    SLED build an idiot proof device and someone else will

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    do yourself a favor and learn the technical side of things. There is nothing more annoying than somebody who only THINKS they know what they are talking about. There is a hardware/helpdesk manager at one of my my on-site clients who doesn't even know what RAID5 is. Yet she is the one who orders equipment. Bascially her employees run the whole department, and she takes all of the credit and attends the management meetings. Worthless. No wonder everything is f'd up over here.
     
  9. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

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    The other problem is that the engineers under an untechnical IT manager will lie to him, overestimating the time on anything they don't feel like doing to make sure they are never assigned that job, or will take 10 times as long as an average programmer should ever take to accomplish a task they don't care for.

    This is totally commonplace. The IT manager needs to be a better engineer than the guys under him, or the company gets fucked.
     
  10. johan

    johan Active Member

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    Exactly. Without a superior technical knowledge, the IT manager loses a lot of respect from his subordinates.

    And in tough meetings where tough decisions are made with a lot of engineers going 20 different directions... either his contributions/decisions are ignored or he's easily steered around.

    Either way...he's a weak and ineffectual manager.
     
  11. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    Laziness and dishonesty are certainly two bad things that happen when technical people work for non-technical managers, but perhaps a more-often-overlooked part of the issue is that a well-trained technical manager can use their skills in combination with their greater experience to help solve problems that their subordinates might otherwise slave away, trying to solve, for much longer than necessary. A non-technical manager can't help their subordinates like that.
     
  12. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

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    Exactly. In fact, I'm just gonna go ahead and say to the thread poster that an "IT Management" degree is a piece of shit. You will suck at your job. Period.

    Pick another degree if you want to excel. You can't be a good IT manager without getting that CS degree and getting years of experience. Then get your MBA if you want to rise to a high-level management. Or double major/minor in something management oriented.

    This is not to say that management skills are not important. They are. But without the technical skills, you will be the most dangerous kind of person a company can have... someone that thinks they are very competent, but is actually totally ineffective. IT Managers like that tank entire companies. With a degree in IT management, you'll be well on your way to achieving that.
     
  13. Gandi1979

    Gandi1979 New Member

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    this would be like a bank teller not being able to count properly :rofl:
     
  14. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    That's not to say that the thread starter is an idiot and can't possibly do the job he wants to do -- far from it. All we're saying is that the specific degree he's looking at isn't going to help him much, and he should consider a different one such as CS, and take some BizMan courses as electives to round out his resume and make him more upwardly-mobile than a purely technical degree will.

    Just wanted to clear that up, because the thread was starting to take a "you're already incompetent just for thinking about it" direction.
     
  15. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    I actually disagree because I'm proof.

    Yes technical skills are very important however, every situation is different. I was a CTO for a mid sized company and I had a BS in accounting. I've always liked computers but my technical skills were just developing when I was promoted. I was, however, fortunate to have a contract engineer that was a pro at all the technical aspects. Many people complimented me on my performance. When we sold the company, the purchasing company wanted to hire me but I was ready for a change.

    While I generally agree with your statement....rarely, if ever, do absolutes hold.

    However, the odds favor technical skills which is why I've returned to University for a second BS in CS. To the OP, I would suggest you drop the IT and go for a BS in CS....afterall you can still be an IT mgr with a CS degree but you will have many more options available to you.
     
  16. kenzo

    kenzo New Member

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    my itm program is actually the best in Canada. It gives u real tech skills as well as soft skills. I only finished 1st year. There will be more to come. There will be specialized programs in my 3rd year, where u specialize what type of IT work u want. That is why i am confused if i should get cerfs. or not.


    Dont get me wrong, i actually do have the hard skills as well.

    I went to see the A+ book last couple of days ago. It was all basic stuff that i know already, except for 1/3 of the book about diagnosing and stuff. I dont want to buy the book. I can juss search the internet for the information.
     
  17. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    lol... He's gonna be in for a BIG surprise when no one hires him cause he doesn't know shit. "but but but but I have a degree"
     
  18. kenzo

    kenzo New Member

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    This is the specialization list that students will need to pick to pursue.

    Curriculum
    i am going to pick Telecommunications and Infrastructure Management
    heres the courses and information, go see if this will be good for my career

    http://www.ryerson.ca/itm/pdf/op5.pdf
     
  19. kenzo

    kenzo New Member

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    i didnt say i dont know anything

    dont underestimate me =p

    and i am not into too much programing, that is why i went to ITM. i going for networking.
     
  20. kenzo

    kenzo New Member

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    i believe that my program is good. I know students that get out of my program and do great. IBM supports our program and hire us.
     
  21. samm

    samm Next in Line

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    What department inside IBM do they work for?
     
  22. kenzo

    kenzo New Member

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    what ever IBM needs
     
  23. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    Interesting. So your curriculum is corporate-sponsored? That's not uncommon for technical degrees, I suppose -- it effectively amounts to IBM contracting with your school to teach students the stuff that IBM wants them to know, and then IBM hires the students. My degree wasn't specifically sponsored by any corporation, but given the number of my professors who had come from AT&T and Bell Labs, it might has well have been sponsored by them. If you're one of the ones that gets hired, it will work out well for you; that said, you'll certainly learn more from two years at IBM than you will from four years at your school.

    I had a conversation with my father about this very topic a few days ago. I majored in software engineering and I attended a school no more prominent than the school he got his law degree from, but since my degree was a technical one and his was a liberal art, I was much better positioned to make money -- for him to have made the same pay I made straight out of college (accounting for inflation, of course), he would have needed to attend an Ivy League school, whereas I didn't need that kind of rarified academic pedigree to convince people that I know how to do what I do.

    I'll be honest; from a pure academic standpoint, your ITM degree is pretty hokey -- I don't see any of the traditional sort of theoretical or conceptual classes that more well-established CS/SE curricula have, just the sort of stuff that IBM could make immediate use of. Then again, a degree -- no matter the quality or reputation -- that gets you into a job at a huge, respected corporation straight out of college is nothing to sneeze at, if you're only concerned with making pay. And let's face it, the only jobs that care about your degree are your first job out of school, and your first management-level job.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2006
  24. kenzo

    kenzo New Member

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    the only thing of courses IBM will only hire the good students of the program, however i heard nothing but great comments about my program.
    As i said, the program teaches u hard skills as well. CS teaches that too that includes more science and math with ITM wont provide, but itm provides the accounting, economics, law, etc with the hard skills. But at the end, only the indvidual holding the degree like u said get their 1st job that matters and the individual will only know whats best at what they are specializing.
    My friend that is in CS already forgot programing languages about VB.net which i took last semester.
    So i dont think CS is everything to be in a computer career
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2006
  25. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    Wait...so just because your friend forgot something you are dising the CS degree. uh...ok w/e
     

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